1080p video on a budget

lkjjr · #1 06-09-2021, 01:23 PM

Looking to shoot some YouTube videos in 1080p. I have what I need to record the audio portion well (Zoom R8 digital recorder), but want some help/advice re: video recording. I have a Canon point and shoot camera that does a fine job except that it has a 10 minute limit before starting a new file (and not seamlessly), which is a significant PIA. And relatively short battery life. So…

I’m hoping to find something used that I can get on the cheap (maybe $50 or so on eBay?). Obviously don’t mind making compromises, but need 1080p, 30fps, capable of continuous capture for 15 minutes or better, and ideally capable of accepting an external mic. I don’t have any experience with action cams, but might they suffice? Are there out of production camcorders or smart phones I should be looking for? Or am I just dreaming?

BTW, I’ve got pretty good video editing skills, but need to streamline the process so I can concentrate more on playing while recording.

Thanks for any suggestions

Rudy4 · #2 06-09-2021, 06:30 PM

I've been doing some 1080 video and combining with audio recorded from my Zoom R24, which is similar to what you want to do. I used three microphones and a DI from my guitar, a K&K Pure Mini in my most recent projects.

I'm still experimenting with the process, and shot a couple of videos last weekend with my playing partner which I'll post on Youtube soon. Normally we play with a bass player as a three piece, but he was tied up so I overdubbed the bass after shooting the video.

I can add a link to the video in this discussion if you'd like.

I'm using my Motorola Moto E6 smart phone which produces very acceptable HD video. The app that comes with the phone is limited, so I downloaded the free "Open Camera" which gives me a lot of control over the video produced, most importantly locking exposure and focus. You can also designate where the video is stored if you have a high capacity card installed.

I shoot the video and then transfer the mp4 over to my PC for editing with Reaper.

I haven't seen any limit to amount of time you can shoot, so maybe that's an option for you.

Those dedicated "music cameras" have wide angle lenses which always distort the picture, which I can't stand. Combining a better mic signal with that sort of camera is often problematic, too. Unless you want to spend a bunch on your camera then you're chained to the camera using it's own automatic gain control and compression. This ends up not being ideal, obviously.

Those factors are why I chose to combine video and separately recorded audio in post using the PC and Reaper. It's not terribly difficult to sync your audio and video in post, and you can always use a program that syncs them automatically for you.

I actually like having the video and audio both within the program so I can add plug in effects, both audio and video, before rendering the composite results to a postable video.

I end up writing a lot of songs, so my primary reason for doing this is to archive them. Here's an example of that, doing it all myself with overdubs. My R24 is sitting immediately on my right side, and you can see that in the video.

phcorrigan · #3 06-09-2021, 07:31 PM

As Rudy4 suggested, using your phone might be a good option, but you need to combine audio and video in post.

I have a webcam that does 1080P, but the angle of view is too wide for my tastes.

Many modern cameras in various price ranges will give you 1080 HDMI output. A "point and shoot" with a zoom lens is one option, and a camera with interchangeable lenses is another, but in both cases you'll be making a substantial investment. I haven't seen one with a 10-minute limit, but 30 minutes is quite common.. That usually doesn't affect the HDMI output however, so if you are recording the video via your computer the timeout won't matter. BTW, that is probably true of your current camera.

I have a Sony a77 with multiple lenses, but it does not have HDMI output, so I upgraded to the newer a77ii which does. This allows me to use my existing lenses, but it was still a substantial investment. I use it both for recording and online music sessions, with no timeout period.

lkjjr · #4 06-09-2021, 07:35 PM

Thanks Rudy,

Great reply. I looked at your video and really enjoyed the performance, thought it was first class. The sound was excellent, and I was impressed also with the video quality, which is want I want to accomplish too. I currently use a Moto E4 for my smart phone (yeah I know,a bit ancient these days), but its video quality is a bit less than what I need. Will check out the E6's on eBay.

Appreciate your help...

lkjjr · #5 06-09-2021, 07:39 PM

Thanks Patrick...
I'm used to marrying audio and video in post. Use open source/Linux stuff that is pretty good for my needs. Just would like to by pass the syncing if possible.

min7b5 · #6 06-09-2021, 08:15 PM

I would just use a smart phone. Set if for 1080 or 4k, and at 24 fps and sync the audio in post. You can make a really great looking video that way. One big advantage to using a real camera over a smart phone at some point is that using lens capable of a shallow depth of field gives a more cinematic look and feel for sure. If you're in focus but things behind you are out of focus, it actually really makes you and/or you guitar pop out, and it feels a bit more like how we really see things in the world. With a good smart phone at 4k, the good news is everything in the room is really perfectly in focus, but that's not always a good thing... But you'd have to spend a few hundred bucks to get something with a nice background blur.

Rudy4 · #7 06-10-2021, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by min7b5

I would just use a smart phone. Set if for 1080 or 4k, and at 24 fps and sync the audio in post. You can make a really great looking video that way. One big advantage to using a real camera over a smart phone at some point is that using lens capable of a shallow depth of field gives a more cinematic look and feel for sure. If you're in focus but things behind you are out of focus, it actually really makes you and/or you guitar pop out, and it feels a bit more like how we really see things in the world. With a good smart phone at 4k, the good news is everything in the room is really perfectly in focus, but that's not always a good thing... But you'd have to spend a few hundred bucks to get something with a nice background blur.

There are workarounds (HERE) for the "depth of field" issue when using a smartphone, but I'm way too lazy (and "frugal"...) to do that.

Brent Hahn · #8 06-10-2021, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudy4

There are workarounds (HERE) for the "depth of field" issue when using a smartphone, but I'm way too lazy (and "frugal"...) to do that.

The other thing to consider is how much you want to commit to the framing of a shot. You may want to crop or resize in post. If you've committed to an extreme closeup (with groovy bokeh) you get what you get.

Below, there's a link to a thing a buddy of mine shot and cut. It's a Facebook link, so I hope y'all can see it. It's done in a rather vast church sanctuary, and it's all shot with 2 locked-off 4K cameras about 75 feet from the performers and 40 feet apart. Both cameras set up for wide shots. All the "camera moves" are done in post in Final Cut. If you want to do this kind of thing, everything has to be in focus.

CHURCH BAND

Rudy4 · #9 06-10-2021, 09:31 AM

Here's the video I referenced earlier, just edited in Reaper. It's live with the exception of my bass overdub because our normal "bass brother" couldn't make it.

Brent Hahn · #10 06-10-2021, 09:40 AM

That's wonderful -- great vocals. Explain "Ledless." :-)

Rudy4 · #11 06-10-2021, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

That's wonderful -- great vocals. Explain "Ledless." :-)

Thanks, Brent.

Ledless Brothers is a wordplay on The Delmore Brothers of the 30's. The Delmores were one of several brother duets during that time period. Probably the most often covered of the brother duos were the Louvin Brothers.

"Led" is the "Del" part spelled backwards and "less" is the opposite of "more", hence, The Ledless Brothers.

lkjjr · #12 06-10-2021, 10:50 AM

Quote:

"Led" is the "Del" part spelled backwards and "less" is the opposite of "more", hence, The Ledless Brothers

Love it, and the music too.

Rudy4 · #13 06-12-2021, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lkjjr

Love it, and the music too.

Thanks kindly.

Since you're looking for tips, here's a link for a previous topic I posted

"Video / audio production on the cheap"

keith.rogers · #14 06-12-2021, 09:08 PM

Smartphones, and almost any older camcorder made in the past, what, 10? years has 1080p capability. Camcorders have better lowlight capability than most point & shoot as well as time limited only by the size of the SD card and power availability. (My Sony mirrorless cameras would run for about 30m, though one will overheat in many situations - they are not generally designed well for extended video, IMO.)

With AC you can record forever, or if your camcorder can run off 5VDC (see what the AC adapter outputs), you can find cheap external battery packs that will generally run them for hours and hours. (Do pay attention to mA output compared to the AC/DC adapter - you need to match power requirement of camcorder.)

A useful feature of camcorders or point & shoot for any video is an LCD/LED screen that flips around so you can see the framing without needing another person. Having a manual mode for focus and white balance is useful, and sometimes critical, depending on the shooting environment.

A few years ago when I was doing a lot more of this kind of thing I got a couple of used Panasonic camcorders. Not $50 then, but now, who knows. Here's a video with a couple of them in use.

https://youtu.be/MHQ-ChH-CMw (YouTube link - Columbus Stockade Blues)

Rudy4 · #15 06-13-2021, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keith.rogers

Smartphones, and almost any older camcorder made in the past, what, 10? years has 1080p capability. Camcorders have better lowlight capability than most point & shoot as well as time limited only by the size of the SD card and power availability. (My Sony mirrorless cameras would run for about 30m, though one will overheat in many situations - they are not generally designed well for extended video, IMO.)

With AC you can record forever, or if your camcorder can run off 5VDC (see what the AC adapter outputs), you can find cheap external battery packs that will generally run them for hours and hours. (Do pay attention to mA output compared to the AC/DC adapter - you need to match power requirement of camcorder.)

A useful feature of camcorders or point & shoot for any video is an LCD/LED screen that flips around so you can see the framing without needing another person. Having a manual mode for focus and white balance is useful, and sometimes critical, depending on the shooting environment.

A few years ago when I was doing a lot more of this kind of thing I got a couple of used Panasonic camcorders. Not $50 then, but now, who knows. Here's a video with a couple of them in use.

https://youtu.be/MHQ-ChH-CMw (YouTube link - Columbus Stockade Blues)

All true. I found the Open Camera free ios app to be very useful due to the ability to easily manually adjust white balance and then lock the white balance and focus.

When I used to use a inexpensive point-n-shoot camera to do quick videos I made up a camera mount that had a mirror mounted behind the camera so I could easily see the camera's rear screen to frame the shot. It worked great.

I'm considering doing the same thing for my Smartphone tripod mount, but the smartphone just seems easier to frame the shot appropriately.