#1
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Break angle on saddle, affect on tone/volume?
Does a low saddle transmit the string vibration to the bridge and the top less efficiently than a tall saddle?
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#2
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In a word, yes. This is why many guitars eventually need neck resets. They become too hard to fret and lose a lot of their oomph. (A very technical term, lol.)
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#3
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I've got a Martin that's had low saddle height and minimal break angle for many years. It's the best sounding and playing acoustic that I've heard or played.
Gazza |
#4
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If the guitar has been set up properly, then low saddle height and break angle will have little or no impact on tone.
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#5
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The height of the saddle and its break angle do have an impact on both tone and volume, to an extent. This is why bluegrass guitarists often have their saddle height pretty high, just so the guitar will cut through better in purely acoustic jam session situations.
Naturally, this reaches a point of diminishing returns fairly quickly. But if the player is willing to sacrifice some playability in exchange for greater projection and “cut,” that’s one common way of doing it. Hope that makes sense. Wade Hampton Miller |
#6
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Yes it's physics, the bigger the angle is the more the vertical component loads the saddle.
__________________
'04 Ovation Custom Legend 6759 (12 strings) '06 Ovation Balladeer K1111 '10 Gibson Sheryl Crow '11 Martin HD-28V '16 Yamaha FG180 50th anniversary '18 Gibson Southern Jumbo '20 Guild F-512 MPL |
#7
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It’s the height of the saddle, not the “break angle” from the saddle to the pin.
A saddle works as a lever, with the strings applying torque to the top. A taller saddle is a longer lever - giving more torque. There’s a limit to how much stress the saddle, bridge and top can handle; and 1/2” above the top seems to be the “ideal” height. The break angle from the saddle to pin (or anchor point if a pinless bridge) is just a consequence of anchor location relative to the saddle. If it were as vital as some believe, you wouldn’t see so much variation. Some pin locations are parallel to the saddle. Some are parallel to the bridge. Some are in a ‘u’ shape, and some (particularly pinless systems) have a much less acute angle. The neck angle can (and should) be set to give good playability with the appropriate amount of height at the saddle. In a perfect world, you would adjust the neck angle instead of sanding the saddle to get good playability. With a fixed neck, that’s not cost effective. Taylor’s shim system and other makers’ adjustable necks are an attempt at this. |
#8
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Quote:
On the other side you can have a low saddle but if the pins are even lower you will have more vertical force than with higher pins, it's like a bowed instrument with tailpiece. If the tailpiece were on the same plan as the saddle no vertical force on the top....and that was the reason why in the early XIXth they converted almost all what we call today "baroque" violins with horizontal neck to the current configuration with a neck angle, it allowed to install a highger bridge and therefore more volume due to the fact the angle of the tailpiece had increased.
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'04 Ovation Custom Legend 6759 (12 strings) '06 Ovation Balladeer K1111 '10 Gibson Sheryl Crow '11 Martin HD-28V '16 Yamaha FG180 50th anniversary '18 Gibson Southern Jumbo '20 Guild F-512 MPL |
#9
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I don't understand how the saddle acts as a lever. Where is the pivot point designed to be? I always thought the bridge was designed to prevent the saddle from rotating, that torque on the saddle was a bad thing. Of course alot of things turn out to be not as I thought.
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It never moves any faster than it's supposed to go - Taj Mahal |
#10
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Calling Alan Carruth! Calling Alan Carruth!
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Bob DeVellis |
#11
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#12
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#13
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Seems that not enough people pay attention when he posts...
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Last edited by dneal; 09-30-2018 at 08:06 AM. |
#14
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I think there is some confusion as to pitch angle and height in this thread. The OP wants to know about height. Some individuals will lower a saddle and find an excellent playability combination of neck relief. Some people will utilize the truss rod first to lower the action. Some people dont understand this and automatically think a low saddle needs a neck reset when the guitar could be adjusted differently and maintain a higher saddle. I have an 00-18V with a very low saddle however i could easily put a taller one in it and adjust the action accordingly with the truss rod but it plays so excellent now I wont bother. Now the pitch is a different story and thats probably why there is a picture of a violin here. There is a break point in pitch angleand of course a taller saddle will allow fo rmore of a pitch but I dont know how much more it matters after 15-20 degrees if any. Then again yo ucan ramp a low saddle and achieve more even on a lower bridge. I have some at a 45% angle on some but I doubt its much different ton than if it was at 20 degrees. Just make sure there is some pitch or its like a telecaster B and E without string retainers.
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#15
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And in most cases, saddle height will also effect the break angle to the pin. Low break angle might give you more sustain and less attack. And High break angle gives you more attack and slightly less sustain. However there are also other ways to increase break angle over the saddle without increasing saddle height. You can ramp the string groove on the bridge so that it is closer to the saddle. This will increase the break angle. Some say that this will increase the attack time and make that string more pronounced. In my own personal experiments for my guitars I have found this to be true. But again, this does depend on the builders design. There is no right or wrong. Some people like the effects of a low saddle and break angle. Personally I like a little bit of height and greater break angle. |