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Old 06-21-2018, 11:37 AM
jandrewmusic jandrewmusic is offline
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Default Strap Locks and Acoustic Electrics

I'm not really fond of the idea of putting strap locks on my Collings C10 and I'm not sure how likely it is to fall, but it would be nice to be able to take the strap off easily as I prefer playing without a strap at home. So, I take the strap on and off at least weekly to perform.

I have the rubber washers, but often I need to get "untangled" from my guitar quickly to change guitars or get off stage - because I'm that good and fans will rush the stage ... that's a joke, I'm actually quite terrible. Anyway, the strap locks just seem easier and safer than putting the guitar over my head every time.

So, I ordered the new Schaller S-Locks and they should be here tomorrow. I'm having a K&K Pure Mini installed on this guitar, so I guess that mean's I can only use the strap lock on the neck. I wish I could use it at the end pin too, but that's were I plug in. I suppose, I could install a strap lock next to the input jack, but I'm especially not fond of that.

Right now, I'm thinking S-Lock on the neck and perhaps Tapastring StrapKeeper at the end pin where I plug in. It seems like this way I could get the guitar off quickly by just un-clipping the neck S-Lock. And then later I can remove the strap from the end pin.

I'd just mic it and not modify this beautiful guitar at all, but I like to move live. Anyway, I'd love to hear what others are doing.

Any ideas/input would be greatly appreciated!
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Old 06-21-2018, 12:18 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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I have Schaller strap locks on all of my guitars that I use in performance. I have pickups in most of them, as well. I loathe endpin jacks, so I get the input jacks flushmounted, usually halfway between the strap button and the top.


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Old 06-21-2018, 12:20 PM
YamahaGuy YamahaGuy is online now
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See if the person installing the K&K can use this jack:
https://www.guitarfetish.com/Externa...me_p_6432.html
Then use one of these: https://www.google.com/shopping/prod...HXmIAVgQ8gIIcA
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Old 06-21-2018, 03:09 PM
jandrewmusic jandrewmusic is offline
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Thank you both for your replies. I should probably have a separate guitar for gigging, but I get attached to guitars , no pun intended. And I can't afford to have extras.

Wade, the flush-mounted input jack is a good idea and may be the only real solution. I'm just reluctant to do much modification to my favorite guitar. But I know these instruments are meant to be played and enjoyed, so I may have to go that route.

YamahaGuy, the 3.5mm jack you link to is kinda similar to the Vintage Jack Tapastring sells: http://tapastring.com/vintagejack.htm

I've thought about using one of these; they are really creative options for those who are squeamish about any drilling to the guitar. But I'm concerned about any reliability issues. As great of an option as they are, even Tapastring warns about reliability.

As to why I'm seriously jamming to the point of worrying about the guitar flying away on a C10 may be a deeper question, lol, but I just like the guitar and do take it easy finger style a lot, but I like to really get down with it too. I mean no disrespect to Collings by strumming this instrument ... in fact, I think it sounds amazing either way.

But I'm still left with my original quandary. The Dunlop 7000's are interesting. I wonder if they would fit over a standard input jack? Plugged in, it seems like a failure at the input jack would be unlikely. But I really don't know. Maybe I should see if I can find some videos on the internet of strap failures.

When it comes down to it, I think what I'm really after is a way to remove the strap quickly and without straining the wood fibers.

My dad is a structural engineer (who knows nothing about guitars) and we've done some experimenting with the screw-wood interaction at the neck pin. He happened to have a huge 10+ pound piece of scrap Honduran mahogany in his shop so we've tried different size pilot holes, using a tap, using bee's wax on the threads, etc.

He has all sorts of wood "elasticity" specs for all different types of woods and stuff and it's all way above my head, but what got me thinking about this was he watched me take the strap on and off the pin and it required quite a bit of force - it's a new leather strap though and will surely soften over time. I'm sure the big guitar manufacturers who know both about guitars and structural analysis have done extensive testing on this, but my dad is a super analytical and did comment that there "could be" some compromise to the integrity of the wood fibers every time the strap is removed. Now it may take 100,000+ strap removals (more than multiple lifetimes) for the 1/8" screw to fail, but it did get my attention. This is major overkill to analyze, but it is interesting nonetheless.

If the end pin is secured by a nut on the inside of the guitar - i need to go look at an installation diagram - then there's probably about infinite strap removals available at this junction. Using a tapered end pin, as a non-engineer who knows little to nothing about guitars, I'm surprised this sort of interference fit is so strong. But I'm sure many of you on this forum who understand why this works. I wonder why Collings glues their end pins?

I just like the incredible engineering of the strap locks and the ease of removing the strap when not in use. Like I said, my Schallers come in tomorrow and I'll probably have my dad install the neck strap pin. We'll have to measure the minor and major diameters of the screw, but in our testing of what was purported to be a 1/8" screw we liked a 5/64th or 3/32nd pilot hole and then a 1/8" wood tap.

I should probably have my luthier install, but he has a 6 week wait usually. And this should be pretty simple stuff. Now the pickup installation, I don't think I'm up for!

Any comments are always appreciated. Still curious what people are doing when making quick acoustic guitar changes on stage. I bet someone could design a cool end pin strap lock similar to the Schallers that could accommodate an instrument cable. But I imagine that first, it would be huge and, more likely, I can't find such a product because it's completely unnecessary.
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Old 06-21-2018, 03:29 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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jandrew, what my guitar repairman did on my most recent guitar is match the taper of a violin tuning peg to the end pin hole, then glued the tuning peg into the end pin hole and cut it flush to the surface of the guitar. After the glue cured he drilled it for the screw and installed the Schaller strap button there.

The input jack will go into another hole drilled halfway between the top and the strap button. I haven't had that done yet, because I haven't decided whether I want this particular guitar to have a pickup in it. (I have plenty of guitars with pickups in them, so it's not a necessity for this guitar.)

I'm a strong believer in strap locks, in large part because I move around a lot as I play and sing, but also because I'm a multi-instrumentalist who changes instruments a lot in performance. Having the added security of strap locks makes that a lot safer all the way around, because it's when you're in the midst of a quick change from one instrument to another that straps can easily come loose if they're not already locked in place.


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Old 06-21-2018, 03:55 PM
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As an alternative to an actual strap lock, I ended up replacing the strap buttons on the two guitars I use when I perform (such as it is) - my Eastman E6OM-LTD (acoustic electric) and my Eastman T184MX (semi-hollow electric) with these elliptical strap buttons. I find that the straps go on and off with less stretching of the strap holes and they are more secure (all it takes is proper orientation). May be an alternative solution.
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Old 06-21-2018, 11:49 PM
lar lar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pax238 View Post
Do you think these elliptical do-hickies can replace (w/o modifications) the wood screwed-in endpin on an Gibson Advanced Jumbo (it doesn't have any pickup or electronics)?

Will the rubber bushing affect the finish of the guitar?
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Old 06-22-2018, 10:02 AM
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Strap lock buttons look about the same as any other. When the strap is off you play the guitar without any difference in appearance or function. Additionally, you can still use any strap, with or without locks. When you want/need to have a secure strap on your guitar, you use the strap with the locks on it. It's the best of both worlds. And, of course, there's no reason not to use the same guitar for home play and gigging.
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Old 06-22-2018, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lar View Post
Do you think these elliptical do-hickies can replace (w/o modifications) the wood screwed-in endpin on an Gibson Advanced Jumbo (it doesn't have any pickup or electronics)? Will the rubber bushing affect the finish of the guitar?
No need to fret () about the rubber washers. Simply replace them with felt like most strap buttons are installed with and there will be zero problems. And yes you simply unscrew the existing strap button and install the new. On the off-chance the new screws are a smaller diameter than the old, reuse the old screws.
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Old 06-22-2018, 10:40 AM
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I like the Diago buttons from stewmac on my CL.



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Old 06-22-2018, 11:01 AM
ManyMartinMan ManyMartinMan is offline
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Sorry but those look massive. Not on my guitars. The standard Schaller buttons are smaller than most factory buttons and allow essentially 100% security with the locks installed properly on a strap.

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Old 06-22-2018, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Song View Post
I like the Diago buttons from stewmac on my CL.



I hadn't seen that before. Very clever. I like the idea. May have to try some at some point.
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Old 06-22-2018, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jandrewmusic View Post
I'm not really fond of the idea of putting strap locks on my Collings C10 and I'm not sure how likely it is to fall, but it would be nice to be able to take the strap off easily as I prefer playing without a strap at home. So, I take the strap on and off at least weekly to perform.

....snip ....

Any ideas/input would be greatly appreciated!
Hi, I have a Schaller Strap-Lock fitted to all my guitars including my Collings guitars.

I fit mine into the END of the heel through the heel cap. I know the idea appalls many but I've never had an issue with this, (well just once - the banjo player - see video) and if I ever need to sell one, (if it is a problem), all that needs to be done is to plug the hole with a fret dot or fit a new endcap.

I don't use a straplock in the end of my guitars and some have K&K endpins just like yours.

I make my own leather straps - from eBay I buy wide leather strips which are usually about 3 m/m thick , and simply cut them to my preferred length -the priority being the distance between hole centres of course.

I bought a 1/2 " diameter hole punch and use that for making the hole for the jack-plug tailpin, and and using a smaller hole punch - about 1/8" dia. I make another hole about an inch above the big one, then I cut the leather between them and round the corners.

I frequently perform with a 6 and a 12 and like to change them quickly and easily.
I put my strap over my shoulder, and simple detach one guitar and attach the next.

See this
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Old 06-22-2018, 05:44 PM
jandrewmusic jandrewmusic is offline
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Thank you all for your input! Really helpful stuff!

Got the locks today and plan to install tomorrow. Still not sure what to do about the end pin ... I'll see how the neck strap lock feels and do some more brainstorming about what to do at the input jack.

Thanks for the replies!

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Old 06-23-2018, 07:03 AM
joeguam joeguam is offline
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Default Strap Locks and Acoustic Electrics

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=330615

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=332368

Here are two threads that have information and photos specifically on installing strap locks to the endblock with an endpin jack.

I use the Loxx strap locks (https://www.loxx-products.com/live/m...cks/music.aspx) because it was designed to not have any sharp points that could ding your guitar. I switch between guitar and ukulele for 98% of the songs in my shows, so this means I take off my guitar and put it on about 30 times a show. (If youíre curious, you can see some of my YouTube videos here: http://www.joeguam.com/youtube) Iíve used the same Loxx straplocks on my current guitar for well over 500 gigs now and havenít had a single issue. In fact, installing strap locks was arguably one of the best guitar-related decisions Iíve ever made. It has completely taken my mind off worrying about my strap and focused on the music instead.
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