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  #16  
Old 03-08-2018, 12:12 PM
bigreddog bigreddog is offline
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Not as much as Unicorn horn nut and saddle.
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  #17  
Old 03-08-2018, 12:26 PM
MartyT MartyT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HFox View Post
Well, I seem to have caused a bit of a wrinkle in The Force with my Bling post.
So.... Does the use of Hot Hide Glue add to the tone/voice of an instrument versus other adhesives ?
Yeah, this will drive people crazy.....

I think all things being equal, hide glue gives you a crisper more resonant sound.
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  #18  
Old 03-08-2018, 12:35 PM
jessupe jessupe is offline
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No, it does not "improve tone" , but what it does do is make it so the guitar can be repaired. But beyond that, the other major advantage that is will not "creep".

The advantages of a no creep glue can be subtle, or they can be huge.

The real "thing" about hide glue and other protein based/gelatin glues is that they are hydroscopic and will absorb and wick off moisture at very similar rates to the wood, therefore during expansion and contraction cycles the glue expands and contracts along with the wood, where other adhesives do not.

If extreme cycles happen with "regular" glue often times seems will start to show distortions, these can telegraph through finishes and show either valleys or peaks in glue seems as well as lead to distortions in areas that have constant load like the neck.

From a buisness/money making point of view hide glue is much more labor/time intensive as well as a minor amount of electricity that is used to keep a glue pot hot all day, and yes there is a "skill" that needs to be developed using it.

It must be applied correctly in a timely fashion or it will fail.

The other advantage of hide glue from a builders perspective is that hide glue comes in or can be made to be different strengths. From virtual epoxy like bond, to a weak temporary tack glue.
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  #19  
Old 03-08-2018, 12:38 PM
Pitar Pitar is offline
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And here I am thinking the OP was baiting in the other thread. BTW, do glue joints resonate? If so, I would have thought this puppy would have disassembled itself after a couple missions with those Rolls-Royce Merlins frequencies playing havoc.

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  #20  
Old 03-08-2018, 12:43 PM
guitar george guitar george is offline
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  #21  
Old 03-08-2018, 01:02 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HFox View Post
Well, I seem to have caused a bit of a wrinkle in The Force with my Bling post.
So.... Does the use of Hot Hide Glue add to the tone/voice of an instrument versus other adhesives ?
There's actually far more evidence backing up that claim than there is with abalone trim "improving" the tone of the guitars its on.


whm
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  #22  
Old 03-08-2018, 01:05 PM
Mr. Jelly Mr. Jelly is offline
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The opinions will go on forever. I've had hide glue guitars. I worked in the production of gelatin for over thirty years.

The biggest fascination of a hide glue guitar has been and is, is that it is the way guitars and other wood products were made in olden days. It's the original glue. To me that's pretty cool. It's no different than wanting a desk made with no nails. Only wood joints and hide glue. Since I don't get into expensive wood furniture and I am into guitars getting a hand made guitar with wood joints and hide glue is pretty cool and fun to me. I don't need another reason.
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  #23  
Old 03-08-2018, 01:28 PM
00-28 00-28 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wade Hampton View Post
There's actually far more evidence backing up that claim than there is with abalone trim "improving" the tone of the guitars its on.


whm
No there's not.

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  #24  
Old 03-08-2018, 01:46 PM
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ljguitar ljguitar is offline
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Hi all

I have 3 single builder handbuilt guitars each of which have some parts done with hide glue and other parts with different adhesives.

I don't even know all the parts are or are not hide glued.

I love all three of these guitars, and they are all life long instruments. The adhesives the builders used are not important to me. I bought each without regard for the builder's preferences in finish, or adhesives. I bought them for the resonance, responsiveness, projection, sustain, and tone. They all have these in abundance.

I assumed because their other guitar builds met my criteria, the new one for me would too. And they did.

And all have been in my herd for 10 to 25 yrs and aren't going anywhere.

All three have so much of the qualities I need in abundance, it's a little like driving a car with 800 horsepower on downtown streets. They nailed every aspect of what I was looking for with qualities yet undiscovered after years of playing them.



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  #25  
Old 03-08-2018, 01:49 PM
hifivic hifivic is offline
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You're ALL wrong.............only Elmers glue give you that "old school" sound
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  #26  
Old 03-08-2018, 02:47 PM
Casey86 Casey86 is offline
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Default Hide glue is awesome for the diy'r

Off topic but I'm gonna comment anyways!

Just sat down and looked at AGF after clamping animal hide glue on a 6" section of my carved upright bass back that had come open. 35 years ago I glued the back on, it has lasted this long with hide glue and through thousands of gigs in all kinds of weather.

The stuff is cheap ($5 plus $3 shipping from a violin supplier) super easy to use and incredibly forgiving. If I ever make a guitar I would use hide glue, especially for the neck joint as it will come apart without wrecking wood.

Mix water in the glue, heat up, clamp and walk away.

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Last edited by Casey86; 03-08-2018 at 10:20 PM.
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  #27  
Old 03-08-2018, 03:46 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devellis View Post
One additional thing that does appear to be true is that some other types of glue can creep under certain conditions. That's been empirically demonstrated. That might be part of the issue with the need for neck resets on instruments, for example. If the prolonged strain on the joints can result in the glue creeping, the affected joints can slide slightly out of alignment. But a lot of vintage (and presumably hide-glue-based) instruments also show the sorts of geometric distortions that necessitate neck resets.
It is true that some glues creep and hot hide glue does not.

It isn't true that neck resets have much, if anything, to do with the neck joint, itself, changing over time. Neck rests, in nearly all cases, are due to permanent deformation of the guitar body that results in an unacceptably high string height. A "neck reset" changes the angle the neck makes with the body to (re)establish a geometry that allows a lower string height. It does not return the distorted body to its original geometry, but counters that distortion. It has nothing to do with the neck joint, itself, or any failure thereof.

Whether the neck is attached to the body without a joint (Spanish heel), glued or bolted doesn't prevent the need for a neck reset.
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  #28  
Old 03-08-2018, 04:58 PM
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El Conquistador El Conquistador is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charles Tauber View Post

Whether the neck is attached to the body without a joint (Spanish heel), glued or bolted doesn't prevent the need for a neck reset.
I think it is worth noting that the bolted on neck will be hugely easier to perform a neck reset on. (Think cheaper, quicker, and less invasive.)

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  #29  
Old 03-08-2018, 06:01 PM
MrDB MrDB is offline
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My custom Esteban has hide glue, and I hear a difference in the tone.

Just sayin.
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  #30  
Old 03-08-2018, 07:22 PM
Wade Hampton Wade Hampton is offline
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After I wrote that there was actually more evidence that hide glue has an impact on a guitarís tone than abalone inlay has, Mike wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 00-28 View Post
No there's not.

.......Mike
Well, I didnít say itís COMPELLING evidence! But I do think it has a bit of tonal impact. I know that the Martin Custom Shop workers who would laugh you out of the room if you tried to tell them that abalone purfling ďimprovesĒ the sound all seem to believe in the tonal impact of hide glue.

My own attitude towards hide glue is similar to that of Bob DeVellis. I think itís fine if thatís what people want, but Iíve never played a high end guitar assembled with hide glue that Iíve wanted to own, much less felt compelled to buy.

Itís not as though I feel actively hostile towards hide glue guitars; itís more like Iím actively indifferent towards them...

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller
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