The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Carbon Fiber

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 01-05-2018, 06:07 PM
Bghd Bghd is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: South Central PA
Posts: 42
Question Too cold or too warm and how long (CF only)

It is very cold here. Made me think that despite having a CF guitar, I wouldn’t want it to sit in my car trunk all day while at work for fear of it being brittle (although I could always let it acclimate wherever I’m going). And on warm days, get too hot and perhaps deform. I realize I could take the guitar into the office for the day but I work in a public space and would have to keep an eye on it all day, so that’s not an option. I also realize that CF is not intended for direct sunlight for extended periods of time. So I ask you all for any personal or technical knowledge on a particular situation.
Presuming the guitar is safely in a hard shell case, in the trunk, not in the cabin, how long is too long on a very cold or very hot day? What is too hot or too cold? Wind chill here now is below zero, and in summer we do get above 100. I would appreciate knowing, especially if these limits have been tested.
If anyone knows, you all will. Thanks in advance.
__________________
Big John

Emerald X20 Artisan w/Anthem
83 Martin D 18
Washburn Augusta
Yamaha 12 string
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-05-2018, 06:47 PM
Captain Jim Captain Jim is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,598
Default

Well, this is just one guy's opinion - my CF guitars are certainly more resistant to climate changes than the wood ones, but I still wouldn't leave one in a cold car overnight, nor in a hot car in the sun. Unless you plan to go out to that cold car (or hot car, as the case may be) to play, I don't see any advantage in leaving it there.

If you're concerned with having the guitar unattended at work (a bit of an indictment with the work environment), buy a bike lock and chain it under your desk. Or, if you aren't using the guitar during your working hours, why take it?

I know my CF guitars travel great, both by boat and in our motorhome. So does our cat - and I wouldn't leave her in a cold car overnight, or a hot one in the sun.

I'll be interested in hearing other opinions on this.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-05-2018, 07:10 PM
Bghd Bghd is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: South Central PA
Posts: 42
Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Jim View Post
Unless you plan to go out to that cold car (or hot car, as the case may be) to play, I don't see any advantage in leaving it there.
I grew up in Baltimore and most of my friends live and play there and I work there, but now I live in the boonies, 45 miles away from home. A primary reason for buying a CF was the ability to leave it in the trunk, and go out directly after work to play music with friends. I can take it into the office, but I feel pretentious doing that, and end up having visitors because of it. I don't need to have more visitors to play or hear my guitar at work, I'm busy.

I'm not considering leaving it in the car all night, but I would certainly leave it there on average temperature days while in work if I know it won't damage the guitar. I realize I could lock it up at the office, but it would be much easier to leave it there without having to worry about it. Ergo(!), my questions. Is an 80 degree day in a trunk for 8 hours bad? Is under 32 degrees for 5 hours bad? Airplane cargo holds aren't conditioned to my knowledge, are they OK on a long flight?

I look forward to the day I can grab and go and play when and where I want to, but I'm not there.
__________________
Big John

Emerald X20 Artisan w/Anthem
83 Martin D 18
Washburn Augusta
Yamaha 12 string

Last edited by Kerbie; 01-06-2018 at 05:31 AM. Reason: Fixed quote
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-05-2018, 07:23 PM
Earl49 Earl49 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Idaho
Posts: 6,443
Default

I would not hesitate to let it get cold-soaked -- no harm there. In Alaska, the guitars of touring musicians often have their instruments ride in the unpressurized, unheated cargo hold at -60°F. I know directly of several Rainsongs that have been through that cycle over and over without harm. The automotive clear coat finish is far less prone to cold-checking too. Mine has made several road trips between Anchorage and Fairbanks in the back of a pickup truck at -35°F or -40°F. It has flown a couple of times too, although I try very HARD not to turn over any guitar to the airline's baggage maulers.

In Baltimore, it doesn't get THAT cold. If your car will still start after sitting all day, it would not be cold enough to harm a CF guitar.

Having said that, I would not panic leaving my CF guitar in a hot car for an afternoon, but would not keep it baking in the car trunk for a whole summer in Arizona or south Texas. But many do........ without issues.

Last edited by Earl49; 01-05-2018 at 07:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-05-2018, 07:59 PM
Captain Jim Captain Jim is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,598
Default

I recall Ted saying he left one of his CF guitars in his SUV so he'd always have it available. Southern California area. Apparently, no issue.

I may be conservative. As a department head used to say to me when sending me out with a rescue boat: "What's the worst that can happen?"

I'm sure there are folks here who have tried their CF guitars in hot and cold. We've heard about Alaska - I think I have read about some manufacturers who caution against extreme heat.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-05-2018, 08:52 PM
Methos1979's Avatar
Methos1979 Methos1979 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Seacoast, NH
Posts: 3,343
Default

I would not hesitate to leave my CF in a very hot or cold car all day. Over night probably not so much but more just because there is likely no reason to do so although I would if the necessity arose.

For some reason I feel like I would be much less comfortable taking an extremely cold guitar into a warm place and playing it right off with little to no acclimation then the other way around. I think maybe the worry of condensation developing on the internal pickup electrics although with my K&K there's not much to worry about.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-06-2018, 04:58 AM
Claytone Claytone is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Jacksonville Arkansas
Posts: 1,516
Default

About a year or so ago I wrote a post here about my Emerald X-20 that I left overnight in "teen" type weather overnight...No problems, other than my fingers were too "numb" to play!!!
As I recall my Peterson Strobotuner also faired well AFTER the batteries warmed up...
IMHO our Carbon Fiber guitars LAUGH at the cold weather Amigo...(I do not have any experience with the "hot" scenario though)...
__________________
Current Acoustics:
Emerald X-20 OS Opus
Wechter Pathmaker
Wechter Nashville Tuned
Wechter Dobro
Washburn Nylon

Electric:
Line 6 Variax

Keyboards: Korg SV-1 88 key reverse

PA:
QSC K8 x 2

Amps:
Custom Peavey Studio Pro (Superman)
Fishman Loudbox Mini
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-06-2018, 06:47 AM
jdobrick jdobrick is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 23
Default

Probably would need to know the specifics of the resins used in a specific guitar to understand the upper bounds on temperature. Carbon fiber is used in the braking systems of aircraft so CF in theory can take very high temperatures. My understanding is that even basic CF resins are good to north of 100°C. In practice I think this means a CF guitar could be put in the coldest or hottest surface conditions pretty much indefinitely. On board electronics might be an issue, if the turning machines have any plastic bushings maybe these could be an issue too, that's about all I can think of. We leave cars outside year round so surely overnight in the trunk of a car for even a few days would be harmless.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-06-2018, 07:25 AM
Frettingflyer Frettingflyer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Southern NH
Posts: 139
Default

I would not think twice about leaving it out while you work. If you were concerned about it acclimating then bring it into the cabin while you drive to your jam. I normally fly with one of mine every week, but sometimes plans change and it has to sit in the car for 2-4 days, never had an issue(Boston).
Cargo holds on modern large jets have “some” conditioning, but it isn’t nearly as warm as the cabin and I have witnessed condensation on customers guitars when they were kept in an airtight case, one that breaths would seem preferable.
Remember, your guitar won’t “feel” wind chill, only the temp.
As for hot, perhaps Ted will weigh in, but I think Jim is correct in what he has said. Carbon brakes on the plane I fly aren’t considered “warm” until 300 C fwiw.
Perhaps an email to Sean and Alistair would be in order?
__________________
Dave
CF-Rainsong Shorty SGM, Blackbird Lucky 13. Rainsong WS-1000
Various wood, mostly Taylors
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-06-2018, 10:53 AM
Strumalot Strumalot is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 122
Default

Guitar Abuse Central here... it was 33 degrees this morning... in our kitchen (old Farrm House, no heat).

This has been the norm lately with the Totally Stupid Arctic Air Mass that has drifted our way...



My Emerald X10N is on a guitar stand next to a gas fireplace. When I flip that on, it gets into the 60s fairly quickly and the X10N, of course, gets a lot more heat from one side.

Stays in tune.

Or very close, even with those goofy nylon strings.

In the summer, the X10 lives in an even more rustic area that can get over 110 degrees during the day and then drop back into the 60s-70s at night.

Again, no issues.

My GX stays outside most of the time and has gotten plenty of sun over the past 5 years or so.

My new Savoy... I'm a little more paranoid about that one. It is currently undergoing chill testing with the rest the instruments, but it stays inside its case when not being played.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-06-2018, 11:54 AM
kramster's Avatar
kramster kramster is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Phoenix, Az
Posts: 4,591
Default

Yes..a lil snow is no problem as well... fake or real..




Dampness not so bad either ..

__________________
YUP....
Emerald: X-20, Center hole X-10 (Maple) and X-7 (redwood), Amicus, Paduak X7,X10, & X30, Spalted Chen Chen X 10
CA: Early OX and Cargo
Blackbird: Savoy
RainSong: CH-OM, CH-WS
Journey: OF660
McPherson: Touring(Honeycomb and gold), Sable
Some wood things by Epi, Harmony, Takamine, Good Time, PRS, Gypsy Music, keyboards, wind controllers.. etc
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-06-2018, 12:01 PM
kramster's Avatar
kramster kramster is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Phoenix, Az
Posts: 4,591
Default

An actual non retouched photo from the future shows an interesting fact about CF guitars not yet realized... can't make stuff like this up I tell ya.


__________________
YUP....
Emerald: X-20, Center hole X-10 (Maple) and X-7 (redwood), Amicus, Paduak X7,X10, & X30, Spalted Chen Chen X 10
CA: Early OX and Cargo
Blackbird: Savoy
RainSong: CH-OM, CH-WS
Journey: OF660
McPherson: Touring(Honeycomb and gold), Sable
Some wood things by Epi, Harmony, Takamine, Good Time, PRS, Gypsy Music, keyboards, wind controllers.. etc

Last edited by kramster; 01-06-2018 at 12:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-06-2018, 12:40 PM
Strumalot Strumalot is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 122
Default

Kramster, I couldn't agree more and the future may already be here.

I've beamed this X10N dozens of times to my friends.

And no apparent damage.

Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-06-2018, 02:05 PM
Song's Avatar
Song Song is offline
thatghostissohotrightnow!
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Close to the Edge
Posts: 1,665
Default

CF is used in spacecraft, satellites, and aircraft where the temperatures range from superheated to zero.
The low coefficient thermal expansion of carbon fiber make it practically impervious to temperature extremes.
The only way your instrument can be damaged by temperature is if your car catches fire.

__________________
Paul Reed Smith Hollowbody 12
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-06-2018, 03:32 PM
Bghd Bghd is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: South Central PA
Posts: 42
Default

This is great info., and creative too. I had seen prior mentions of temps not being issues, but didn't know if weather ever got extreme enough. Clearly it doesn't, except direct sun for a duration. Alaska and SoCal sure answers that.
It occurred to me after the post that cars, planes, etc. were now made of carbon fiber, but there are quality variances. And I knew some here were pilots, but I presumed they might have inside cabin options. So it's great to know I can take it as needed with no worries. I have no intention of leaving Bloo in the car regardless of weather longer than needed. But now I can travel with no worries at all. Thanks again.
__________________
Big John

Emerald X20 Artisan w/Anthem
83 Martin D 18
Washburn Augusta
Yamaha 12 string
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Carbon Fiber

Thread Tools



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=