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  #31  
Old 12-05-2017, 07:57 AM
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martingitdave martingitdave is offline
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Originally Posted by BluesKing777 View Post
I bought the iRig Acoustic Stage contraption few months back, and hey, it is a great idea....

http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/irigacousticstage/


It works well and I can 'electrify' any acoustic I have that as no pickup, or I don't want it to have a pickup.

The down sides are it is 'good for the money' but not in the Fishman league for sound quality and the kicker....road use major or minor.

I mention this gadget because the idea is great and I hope Neumann or Fishman or even someone like Boss, are beavering away on their high quality, probably expensive, road ready version! The iRig has the idea - easy to mount, and remove, on most acoustics, sep preamp with outboard controls........

But I imagine my Neumann or whatever maker's model to have heavy duty leads, power supply, eq, etc in a sturdy Boss type floor pedal...... and hope it is Bluetooth/wireless!

BluesKing777.


Iím glad you mentioned this. Because, itís my hope that something that will improve passive pickups with IR can be made in the same form factor as this iRig.
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  #32  
Old 12-05-2017, 08:03 AM
gr33nman gr33nman is offline
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Originally Posted by BluesKing777 View Post
I just recorded a short, fingerpicked track with my above-mentioned Maton AP5-Pro pickup direct to mixer and then ..here. EQ on mixer flat, no reverb (scary, I love reverb), just the pickup set ala TE (everything flat out....but the mids swept!):



https://soundcloud.com/bk7-3/maton-pickup7b


BluesKing777.


Sounds fantastic, and love your playing
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  #33  
Old 12-05-2017, 08:10 AM
varmonter varmonter is offline
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Ha your right all pickups stink.. couldn't agree more.
Usually when I gig out solo I try to use a mic.
Depending on the overall din of the room.
With the band I use a sunrise.. now it sounds
Like an electric acoustic. But no one cares.
Really my audience isnt there to a ascertain
the subtleties of air vs digital/analog reproduction of
my guitar. ..99 percent of them are incapable
of doing so anyway. And it would cut into their socializing.
I am the only one truly concerned
with what my guitar sounds like. The sunrise sounds good enough.
Not that this doesn't stop me from grail searching lol.
Make music.
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  #34  
Old 12-05-2017, 08:37 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluesKing777 View Post
I bought the iRig Acoustic Stage contraption few months back, and hey, it is a great idea....

http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/irigacousticstage/


It works well and I can 'electrify' any acoustic I have that as no pickup, or I don't want it to have a pickup.

The down sides are it is 'good for the money' but not in the Fishman league for sound quality and the kicker....road use major or minor.

I mention this gadget because the idea is great and I hope Neumann or Fishman or even someone like Boss, are beavering away on their high quality, probably expensive, road ready version! The iRig has the idea - easy to mount, and remove, on most acoustics, sep preamp with outboard controls........

But I imagine my Neumann or whatever maker's model to have heavy duty leads, power supply, eq, etc in a sturdy Boss type floor pedal...... and hope it is Bluetooth/wireless!

BluesKing777.
IMO, the iRig Acoustic Stage is a great bargain for the price, especially if you use the little preamp to blend in a second source.

True enough, its rather unwieldy and delicately made for live performance. The biggest problem which I found, however, is a lack of sufficient headroom when the volume knob is full on. My recording experiments showed a heavy compression/limiting of the signal with aggressive strumming. This can be avoided, however, by not taking the volume knob past the halfway point. (Albeit, you'll need to compensate with more gain at your amp or mixer.)
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  #35  
Old 12-05-2017, 09:37 AM
Chriscom Chriscom is online now
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Iíve noticed that a number of folks are presenting their factory solutions as better mouse traps. And, I totally agree. For instance, the Fishman F1, Maton, Yamaha ART, etc. are all excellent systems. In fact, if Martin made a Adirondack topped guitar with the Fishman system Iíd be mighty tempted. However, the argument that Rich Addison has been making has finally sunk in for me. These systems, and the guitars that contain them, are really perfect for full time performing/working musicians, because they come with two major caveats: the model choices are somewhat limited, so youíll need to really love the offering, and when the systems break, youíll have a much greater challenge replacing or repairing them.

Why is that? Do you simply mean it's easier to replace a completely outboard system (just plug the thing into something else), or is the internal installation on the guitar particularly challenging? I mean if/when it dies, I can see how changing the circuit board that processes everything and the volume etc. controls it's attached to could be a pain, but is there some world-class undersaddle neurosurgery involved?

Speaking as a very happy user of the Aura VT Enhance on one of my Martins.
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  #36  
Old 12-05-2017, 11:35 AM
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noledog noledog is offline
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Originally Posted by Chriscom View Post
I’ve noticed that a number of folks are presenting their factory solutions as better mouse traps. And, I totally agree. For instance, the Fishman F1, Maton, Yamaha ART, etc. are all excellent systems. In fact, if Martin made a Adirondack topped guitar with the Fishman system I’d be mighty tempted. However, the argument that Rich Addison has been making has finally sunk in for me. These systems, and the guitars that contain them, are really perfect for full time performing/working musicians, because they come with two major caveats: the model choices are somewhat limited, so you’ll need to really love the offering, and when the systems break, you’ll have a much greater challenge replacing or repairing them.

Why is that? Do you simply mean it's easier to replace a completely outboard system (just plug the thing into something else), or is the internal installation on the guitar particularly challenging? I mean if/when it dies, I can see how changing the circuit board that processes everything and the volume etc. controls it's attached to could be a pain, but is there some world-class undersaddle neurosurgery involved?

Speaking as a very happy user of the Aura VT Enhance on one of my Martins.
* I'm one of the full-time working musicians that uses a "factory solution" in my MIJ Taks Cooltube "mousetrap" if it dies the Tak answer to the caveat in this particular case is you unplug two wires and easily pop out the interchangeable module/preamp and replace it. I keep an extra one in my gig bag so on break 2 minutes done! I also keep a secondary M80/mag and use one in my D18 as well. Plus to boot, the Cooltube has a secondary mag input on board! So all this works and as in all MIJ Taks if they come out with another mousetrap you like better, you just replace the interchangeable mousetrap! I've used all three different types of Taks wonderful preamps that have come out over the years and the Cooltube variants continue to evolve as well...CAVEAT SOLVED! ...and btw newer, "more advanced" isn't always better because I prefer the Cooltube ver 2 more than the newer ver 3 tho both work well and are interchangeable.

** BUT Chris your point is well taken in the case of the F1 Aura Plus and others like it, if it goes down, no quick fix at a show unless you keep a mag in your bag which if I decide to get the 000-18e Retro, I'll keep my secondary M80 in the case for the quick fix. However, that still doesn't solve the issue that the guitar will have be sent back or taken in somewhere for what may be a costly repair...now if I got a Retro and say down the the road a few years and a few hundred shows this were to happen, I'd weigh #1 the repair cost against how much I still like the guitar acoustically, #2 see if I feel like I got my moneys worth out of the F1 and it paid for itself, and if so, then perhaps I'd gut the F1 and replace it with the M80 which I like and use in my D18. I wouldn't care about the small holes because my guitars after that many shows look beat anyway. ...think that I now have a sound port in a 000-18 that's broke in and I enjoy!

*** It's really something each player can only decide based on their unique circumstances and uses...when I hang up the gigging, Lord willin', I'll just pull the M80 from my D18 and I have my organic lovely Martin to ride out on!

eric
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Last edited by noledog; 12-05-2017 at 11:54 AM.
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  #37  
Old 12-05-2017, 12:06 PM
Paultergeist Paultergeist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriscom View Post
Why is that? Do you simply mean it's easier to replace a completely outboard system (just plug the thing into something else), or is the internal installation on the guitar particularly challenging? I mean if/when it dies, I can see how changing the circuit board that processes everything and the volume etc. controls it's attached to could be a pain......
Speaking from my own experience, the OEM "barn door" electronic modules can break, and replacements are sometimes simply not available. The end-user is left with the prospect of getting something else to fit a large hole already cut into the side bout of the guitar. (As an aside, this would be less of an issue if there was a consistent size hole.....but there is not). Sometimes the hole is too wide or too long, etc. I have thus tried to only have the under-saddle pick-up -- but no electronics panel on the guitar -- as much as possible.
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  #38  
Old 12-05-2017, 12:07 PM
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martingitdave martingitdave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriscom View Post
Iíve noticed that a number of folks are presenting their factory solutions as better mouse traps. And, I totally agree. For instance, the Fishman F1, Maton, Yamaha ART, etc. are all excellent systems. In fact, if Martin made a Adirondack topped guitar with the Fishman system Iíd be mighty tempted. However, the argument that Rich Addison has been making has finally sunk in for me. These systems, and the guitars that contain them, are really perfect for full time performing/working musicians, because they come with two major caveats: the model choices are somewhat limited, so youíll need to really love the offering, and when the systems break, youíll have a much greater challenge replacing or repairing them.

Why is that? Do you simply mean it's easier to replace a completely outboard system (just plug the thing into something else), or is the internal installation on the guitar particularly challenging? I mean if/when it dies, I can see how changing the circuit board that processes everything and the volume etc. controls it's attached to could be a pain, but is there some world-class undersaddle neurosurgery involved?

Speaking as a very happy user of the Aura VT Enhance on one of my Martins.
Chris,

Most of the manufacturers will back stock electronic parts for their guitars. But, the argument against such systems is that guitars have a much longer lifespan than the electronic parts. And, there is possibility that during that time the systems would become unavailable, or obsolete. But, as I mentioned, if you are a working musician with a factory system that you like, in a guitar you love, then more power to you. For the rest, it seems prudent to move the bit that can become dated outboard of the guitar.
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  #39  
Old 12-05-2017, 12:15 PM
Howard Emerson Howard Emerson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriscom View Post
I’ve noticed that a number of folks are presenting their factory solutions as better mouse traps. And, I totally agree. For instance, the Fishman F1, Maton, Yamaha ART, etc. are all excellent systems. In fact, if Martin made a Adirondack topped guitar with the Fishman system I’d be mighty tempted. However, the argument that Rich Addison has been making has finally sunk in for me. These systems, and the guitars that contain them, are really perfect for full time performing/working musicians, because they come with two major caveats: the model choices are somewhat limited, so you’ll need to really love the offering, and when the systems break, you’ll have a much greater challenge replacing or repairing them.

Why is that? Do you simply mean it's easier to replace a completely outboard system (just plug the thing into something else), or is the internal installation on the guitar particularly challenging? I mean if/when it dies, I can see how changing the circuit board that processes everything and the volume etc. controls it's attached to could be a pain, but is there some world-class undersaddle neurosurgery involved?

Speaking as a very happy user of the Aura VT Enhance on one of my Martins.
Chris,
My system involves a single soundboard transducer and an endpin jack. Either straight into an amp, or a simple preamp.

There is nothing to ever go bad with the sensor, and almost any preamp can suffice.

I used to combine it with an internal Crown GLM-200 Mic, and run it all through a Rane AP-13, or a Fishman Pocket Blender, etc.

Now it’s a simple as can be, provided I keep in mind that it ain’t a studio gig when I play out, no matter how quiet the audience.

Of course it’s all about location, location, location...the SBT, that is.

HE
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  #40  
Old 12-05-2017, 12:15 PM
Chriscom Chriscom is online now
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Thanks gang on my last question. I frankly hadn't thought about the barn door situation since the Aura VT Enhance isn't one of those, though I have had them on other guitars and yep that's an issue.
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  #41  
Old 12-05-2017, 01:09 PM
AxeDude AxeDude is offline
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Maybe someone could come up with a bar door adapter plate so one could update a failed barn door electronics system.
I'm quite happy with the one that came with my '93 Martin JC-40. I use a Fishman Acoustic Aura pedal and it gets 'er done- for what I use it for. -Restaurant and bar gigs. I like to be able to adjust my tone and volume without getting down the floor.
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  #42  
Old 12-05-2017, 03:28 PM
BluesKing777 BluesKing777 is offline
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Originally Posted by gr33nman View Post
Sounds fantastic, and love your playing
Thanks GR33!


BluesKing777.





AxeDude:

Maybe someone could come up with a bar door adapter plate so one could update a failed barn door electronics system.




What about a guitar top with a hinge, no glue, like a huge barn door so we can work on the guitar's insides easier? Or even a a guitar top held to the body with Phillips Head screws?



And the Maton (new model) pickup can be bought and changed.over... Here is Tommy E talking about his spare pickups on the road etc...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a8OeqEVklM




BluesKing777.

Last edited by BluesKing777; 12-05-2017 at 03:42 PM.
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  #43  
Old 12-05-2017, 09:59 PM
krisls krisls is offline
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Hard to argue really that the ideal acoustic guitar sound will be a pristine environment, a player with good technique and a few good mics. Concert hall or studio... but for most real world playing situations a pickup is as good as ya's gonna get.

I was a Tak player for years, most recently a cool tube 2 Tan 46c. Great guitar and good sound. I recently though changed up to a Maton. Gasp.. and I was never much of a Maton fan.

But the AP5Pro in my Nashville 808 cutaway is the bees knees as they say. Great sound .. in a live somewhat noisy PA type situation. Not too bad in those cleaner 'posher' options either.

Kris
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  #44  
Old 12-06-2017, 06:56 AM
BluesKing777 BluesKing777 is offline
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Both my Martin D18e and my Maton SRS808 sound great plugged direct!

The Maton’s AP5-Pro has easy analog controls - turn knob to adj volume or mids, slider for B, T, Master Vol... plug in and adjust on the fly if you need to.

Now the Martin Aura controls need more work and it saves every change you make...(my work’s software is the same and I have never seen it anywhere else, so I don’t like that much and would prefer to do the good old ‘Save As’ when I want to!). So if turn the treble knob down, it saves it even if I don’t want it to.....so the only thing onboard I change is the image selection, run all eq flat, the rest I do outboard on a preamp or my mixer. (With manual knobs !!!)

BluesKing777.

Last edited by BluesKing777; 12-06-2017 at 07:04 AM.
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  #45  
Old 12-06-2017, 09:32 AM
AxeDude AxeDude is offline
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I still have the Barcus-Berry pearl dots on the saddle of my '73 D35. In fact, when I had an updated UST pickup installed, the shop left about 1&1/2" of the leads which are still hanging inside. I have seen dozens of pickup systems come & go over the years. Electronics are changing at an exponentially. If you read the forums, the options- and opinions- are nearly endless.
Many of us live in remote areas where we don't have the ability to sample all of the different guitars, pickups, preamps, effects, PAs, mics etc. So we read reviews and take our chances ordering on line. Believe me it is a PITA to have to send anything back for a refund or exchange. I try my best to make informed purchases, but in the end- you pays yer money and take yer chances. Chasing tone is kind of a disease. Trying to describe sound to someone can be like describing colors to a blind person. Good luck in finding your perfect guitar, and guitar pickup.
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