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  #76  
Old 12-06-2017, 07:27 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Random thought but has anyone tried using the irig acoustic mic to record a wavemap? I always thought that the irig sounded incredibly natural and full.
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  #77  
Old 12-07-2017, 04:15 AM
martingitdave martingitdave is offline
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Default ToneDexter - The Holy Grail!

Connectivity might be an issue. I think the TD requires a balanced XLR input. Also Iím not sure that the results would be appreciably better than even a common place dynamic mic located at the neck body joint.
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  #78  
Old 12-07-2017, 05:56 AM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Originally Posted by martingitdave View Post
Connectivity might be an issue. I think the TD requires a balanced XLR input. Also Iím not sure that the results would be appreciably better than even a common place dynamic mic located at the neck body joint.
The newer Irig Acoustic comes with a belt clip preamp. It has a 1/4" out so it could be possible to get a 1/4" to XLR cable to make it work with the Tonedexter. I unfortunately have the original version where it needs to be plugged into an ipad to work. My thinking is that mic'ing a guitar can sometimes be a pain to get right. The Irig is a simple, no fuss solution. Maybe I will get the new version and try it out.
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  #79  
Old 12-07-2017, 06:53 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
The newer Irig Acoustic comes with a belt clip preamp. It has a 1/4" out so it could be possible to get a 1/4" to XLR cable to make it work with the Tonedexter. I unfortunately have the original version where it needs to be plugged into an ipad to work. My thinking is that mic'ing a guitar can sometimes be a pain to get right. The Irig is a simple, no fuss solution. Maybe I will get the new version and try it out.
The iRig Acoustic Stage does indeed sound very good blended with a UST. As a stand alone mic, however, its a little too hollow sounding for my personal taste. For that reason, I wouldn't want to use it for ToneDexter training.


The iRig's belt clip preamp is indeed very interesting and useful. You could, for instance, send a ToneDexter signal into that preamp's Aux In and use the preamp's automatically generated feedback notches to make that signal (SBT through ToneDexter, perhaps) less vulnerable to feedback. Albeit, you'd have to be careful not to send too much signal through the preamp and overdrive it. Its 3v power supply doesn't allow for much headroom.
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  #80  
Old 12-08-2017, 12:31 PM
DSP Andy DSP Andy is offline
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Originally Posted by Chipotle View Post
I have a Composite Acoustics GX that I ordered with the Fishman Aura, but the ToneDexter really intrigues me for other guitars. In particular, a 1937 Gibson L-7 I just acquired. I don't want to make any mods to it.

A Pickup the World Archtop pickup would go under the existing bridge, and seems like it might work well with the ToneDexter. The PUTW site says it's a "compression type" pickup--would that be more like a UST or a SBT? Either way, it ought to work with the TD, right?
We looked into this pickup a bit, and we don't see any reason this pickup wouldn't work well with ToneDexter, though we haven't specifically tried it. If you decide to try it, and you find that it is not satisfactory for any reason, we have a 30 day no questions asked return policy. Thanks for your interest in ToneDexter.
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  #81  
Old 12-08-2017, 12:54 PM
Uncle Pauhana Uncle Pauhana is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
The newer Irig Acoustic comes with a belt clip preamp. It has a 1/4" out so it could be possible to get a 1/4" to XLR cable to make it work with the Tonedexter. I unfortunately have the original version where it needs to be plugged into an ipad to work. My thinking is that mic'ing a guitar can sometimes be a pain to get right. The Irig is a simple, no fuss solution. Maybe I will get the new version and try it out.
Why bother with the ToneDexter at all? If you like the sound of the Irig and it works for you in a simple, no fuss way, why not just continue to use it?

.
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  #82  
Old 12-08-2017, 03:57 PM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Originally Posted by Uncle Pauhana View Post
Why bother with the ToneDexter at all? If you like the sound of the Irig and it works for you in a simple, no fuss way, why not just continue to use it?

.
In a single word, feedback. The iRig Acoustic Stage is very feedback prone, even with the automatic feedback filters engaged. Using ToneDexter to get that iAS mic sound gives you the same advantage as using ToneDexter to get any other mic's sound - a signal that's less feedback prone than a mic signal.

The iAS is also built rather delicately and its somewhat unwieldy to use, especially if you're blending in another pickup (several cables flopping around and getting tangled with each other). I liked blending in a UST with the iAS, but its easier to send two cables (UST & Lyric) to an outboard blender than to deal with three cables plugged into a little box hanging off my guitar strap.
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  #83  
Old 12-08-2017, 04:09 PM
Uncle Pauhana Uncle Pauhana is offline
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Originally Posted by guitaniac View Post
In a single word, feedback. The iRig Acoustic Stage is very feedback prone, even with the automatic feedback filters engaged. Using ToneDexter to get that iAS mic sound gives you the same advantage as using ToneDexter to get any other mic's sound - a signal that's less feedback prone than a mic signal.

The iAS is also built rather delicately and its somewhat unwieldy to use, especially if you're blending in another pickup (several cables flopping around and getting tangled with each other). I liked blending in a UST with the iAS, but its easier to send two cables (UST & Lyric) to an outboard blender than to deal with three cables plugged into a little box hanging off my guitar strap.
Well yes, that does sound like a hassle.

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  #84  
Old 12-09-2017, 09:47 AM
SongwriterFan SongwriterFan is offline
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Originally Posted by guitaniac View Post
In a single word, feedback. The iRig Acoustic Stage is very feedback prone, even with the automatic feedback filters engaged. Using ToneDexter to get that iAS mic sound gives you the same advantage as using ToneDexter to get any other mic's sound - a signal that's less feedback prone than a mic signal.
Does anybody have any details on what the Tonedexter is doing with its "automatic feedback" routine? I've only made one image so far, and did it while in Slot 22 so I didn't go through that process at all. Not sure it would become obvious what it's doing, though, even if I had gone through the process.

One thing I will say is that the "notch filter" worked pretty well for me. I noticed that tapping the top of my guitar induced some pretty serious feedback that sounded like it was in a tight frequency band. Setting the notch filter to around 200Hz solved that issue entirely!
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  #85  
Old 12-09-2017, 12:11 PM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Its my understanding that if you train/create a WaveMap in any slot from 1 to 21, ToneDexter finds the two lowest resonant frequencies of the guitar being trained and reduces the signal a bit at those frequencies. This will hopefully make the signal less feedback prone in live performance (at higher amplification levels) when the guitar top is interacting with speaker sound.

Training in slot 22 is different because its thought that a signal which doesn't have the resonant frequencies reduced might sound s little better for direct recording from ToneDexter.
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  #86  
Old 12-09-2017, 12:11 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Pauhana View Post
Why bother with the ToneDexter at all? If you like the sound of the Irig and it works for you in a simple, no fuss way, why not just continue to use it?

.
I don't use the Irig live, I actually bought it for recording. It might work for some people but definitely not for me. I just thought it would be interesting to test. The tonedexter is still a much better option.
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  #87  
Old 12-09-2017, 01:27 PM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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Originally Posted by guitaniac View Post
Its my understanding that if you train/create a WaveMap in any slot from 1 to 21, ToneDexter finds the two lowest resonant frequencies of the guitar being trained and reduces the signal a bit at those frequencies. This will hopefully make the signal less feedback prone in live performance (at higher amplification levels) when the guitar top is interacting with speaker sound.

Training in slot 22 is different because its thought that a signal which doesn't have the resonant frequencies reduced might sound s little better for direct recording from ToneDexter.
My question for James May or anyone in the know is:

If you train the ToneDexter in Slot 22, can that WaveMap be stored in another slot and still retain all the characteristics of its Slot 22 generation?

If so, this would mean that a player could train several guitars using Slot 22 and store these individual WaveMaps in other slots, and thus have WaveMaps ready for recording purposes as opposed to live-performances. I'm wondering, however, if a Slot 22-recorded WaveMap is stored in another slot, does that WaveMap get altered somewhat into a live-performance WaveMap by being stored in a non-Slot 22 slot?
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  #88  
Old 12-09-2017, 01:39 PM
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Doug Young Doug Young is offline
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Originally Posted by SpruceTop View Post
If you train the ToneDexter in Slot 22, can that WaveMap be stored in another slot and still retain all the characteristics of its Slot 22 generation?
Yes, you can train in any slot, and then save it to another.
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  #89  
Old 12-09-2017, 02:58 PM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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Yes, you can train in any slot, and then save it to another.
Thanks Doug! That's good to know.
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  #90  
Old 12-09-2017, 03:49 PM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Originally Posted by SpruceTop View Post
My question for James May or anyone in the know is:

If you train the ToneDexter in Slot 22, can that WaveMap be stored in another slot and still retain all the characteristics of its Slot 22 generation?

If so, this would mean that a player could train several guitars using Slot 22 and store these individual WaveMaps in other slots, and thus have WaveMaps ready for recording purposes as opposed to live-performances. I'm wondering, however, if a Slot 22-recorded WaveMap is stored in another slot, does that WaveMap get altered somewhat into a live-performance WaveMap by being stored in a non-Slot 22 slot?
My understanding is yes, you can store "recording optimized" WaveMaps in any available slot you wish. You could also store "live performance optimized" WaveMaps in any available slot you wish, including #22. Regardless of what slot the WaveMap is trained in, it won't be stored anywhere until a slot is chosen and the store function performed.


I've been trying to train a WaveMap for my Barberi Soloist-equipped guitar today, but the results are sounding thin and hollow so far. This was the first occasion where I've liked the dry pickup signal a lot more than the Dexterized signal. (I'm only playing every other string to train, as advised.) Oddly enough, the rig sounds very good with another guitar's WaveMap. Go figure.

I'm planning on also installing a PUTW SBT in the guitar, so I'll likely get satisfaction with a guitar-specific WaveMap sooner or later.

Last edited by guitaniac; 12-09-2017 at 03:57 PM.
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