The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Acoustic Amplification

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #61  
Old 12-02-2017, 09:52 PM
ceciltguitar ceciltguitar is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 212
Default

I have finally come around to reading the ToneDexter threads and am very interested in buying one.

I play only nylon string guitar. Has anyone tried a TD with a nylon string guitar? I get the strong impression that everyone on the TD threads is a steel string player. OK, I only read about half of the 318 posts on the long TD thread from last April. Maybe I missed a nylon string player's comments.

In one of these ToneDexter threads I read a comment that someone had tried training the TD on one guitar and that then using the saved result with another guitar worked well. For the longest time I have wished that there was something (I always imagined maybe one of the guitar synthesizers) that I could use to make my Parker nylon Fly sound like a classical guitar. Now I wonder if it might be possible to train the TD using a classical guitar and then use the result with the Parker nylon Fly to get a classical guitar sound? Any thoughts?

Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 12-03-2017, 12:03 AM
Larry Pattis's Avatar
Larry Pattis Larry Pattis is offline
Guitarist - Humanist
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 11,573
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ceciltguitar View Post
I have finally come around to reading the ToneDexter threads and am very interested in buying one.

I play only nylon string guitar. Has anyone tried a TD with a nylon string guitar? I get the strong impression that everyone on the TD threads is a steel string player. OK, I only read about half of the 318 posts on the long TD thread from last April. Maybe I missed a nylon string player's comments.

In one of these ToneDexter threads I read a comment that someone had tried training the TD on one guitar and that then using the saved result with another guitar worked well. For the longest time I have wished that there was something (I always imagined maybe one of the guitar synthesizers) that I could use to make my Parker nylon Fly sound like a classical guitar. Now I wonder if it might be possible to train the TD using a classical guitar and then use the result with the Parker nylon Fly to get a classical guitar sound? Any thoughts?

Thanks!

The live-demo I had about a month ago with James May included using the TD with classical guitar, and then we also used the wave map from that guitar on a Yamaha Silent Guitar...it delivered the same sound, as amplified.

I think this answers your question(s).
__________________
LP

Larry Pattis on Pandora and Spotify
LarryPattis.com
American Guitar Masters

Steel-string guitars by Tom Rein
Classical guitars by Anders Sterner

For Sale: Pierre Bensusan Signature Lowden

100 Greatest Acoustic Guitarists
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 12-03-2017, 05:50 AM
philjs philjs is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Halifax, NS, Canada
Posts: 1,586
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ceciltguitar View Post
In one of these ToneDexter threads I read a comment that someone had tried training the TD on one guitar and that then using the saved result with another guitar worked well.
The nylon string training and demo begins at almost exactly 4 minutes in...



Phil
__________________
Crosby: '10 FSE (redwood/walnut), '10 Bouzar (spruce/maple), '12 JE Baritone Multiscale (redwood/walnut)
Furch: '17 S22CMc (cedar/mahogany) Larrivee: '90 J-09 (spruce/EIR) Lowden: '10 O23c (cedar/walnut)
Martin: '01 J12-15 (mahogany) FOR SALE Stonebridge: '15 G21SWc (spruce/walnut) FOR SALE
Asturias:
'17 GS Custom (spruce/mahogany) Tacoma: '01 ECM38c #5 (cedar/mahogany)

Music: Solo or Trio
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 12-03-2017, 06:16 AM
ceciltguitar ceciltguitar is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 212
Default

Thank you, Larry & Phil! I'm in.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 12-03-2017, 05:10 PM
James May's Avatar
James May James May is offline
AGF Sponsor
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Nevada City, CA
Posts: 242
Default

It seems you've been pointed to the right info. I would add that Stevie Coyle of Mighty Fine Guitars (one of our dealers) is routinely performing with his steel string Parker Fly using a WaveMap that was created with one of his very nice acoustic instruments. This trick is most successful with typical under saddle pickups.
__________________
James May
Audio Sprockets
maker of ToneDexter
James May Engineering
maker of the Ultra Tonic Pickup
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 12-04-2017, 08:45 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,111
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by James May View Post
It seems you've been pointed to the right info. I would add that Stevie Coyle of Mighty Fine Guitars (one of our dealers) is routinely performing with his steel string Parker Fly using a WaveMap that was created with one of his very nice acoustic instruments. This trick is most successful with typical under saddle pickups.
I can recall when the Fishman folks absolutely hated to hear the M word ("modeling") applied to their Aura technology. They took pains to explain the differences between modeling and Aura "sound imaging". It took them years to accept that the technology could also be used for modeling and develop Aura IC (for image casting) to make slender hybrid guitars sound like full-bodied acoustics.

Congratulations to you Audio Sprockets folks for being very quick to discover and demonstrate ToneDexter's modeling potential.


BTW, I'm finding that I like ToneDexter's low character setting for some gigging applications. Congrats to Audio Sprockets for finding a way to provide a more focused signal without having to blend some of the dry signal quack back into my guitar sound.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 12-04-2017, 03:00 PM
jennconducts jennconducts is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: CA Central Coast
Posts: 767
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by James May View Post
It seems you've been pointed to the right info. I would add that Stevie Coyle of Mighty Fine Guitars (one of our dealers) is routinely performing with his steel string Parker Fly using a WaveMap that was created with one of his very nice acoustic instruments. This trick is most successful with typical under saddle pickups.
I've heard Stevie's Parker Fly set up with the TD, trained with a Lowden. The amount of "woodiness" in the sound coming from that guitar is amazing.

I'm such a believer in this unit. It's working great for me in a variety of gig situations. I want to stress that I'm an "analogue person." I love LPs, tubes, The whole 9 yards. But the TD is truly revolutionary.

Jenn
__________________
_____________
www.jennifermartinmusic.com
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 12-04-2017, 09:55 PM
AeroUSA AeroUSA is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 249
Default

Can I use my Martin D-35 wavemap with my PRS piezo out? I assume itís the same thing.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 12-05-2017, 07:22 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,111
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroUSA View Post
Can I use my Martin D-35 wavemap with my PRS piezo out? I assume it’s the same thing.
Its certainly worth a try. When it comes to modeling, its safe to conclude that some "mix and match" combinations of WaveMaps and modeling platform guitar/pickup rigs will work better than others.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 12-05-2017, 02:57 PM
doublescale1 doublescale1 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 389
Default

Reading through this thread and watching all the You Tube videos the Tone Dexter seems like a DIY kind of Fishman Aura system - combining the mic'd attributes of the guitar with the real-time playing to push that blended signal to the PA or record desk. The Tone Dexter allows you to choose the mic's you use, unlike the long list of pre-imaged mic's with the Fishman Aura Gallery - but the net effect seems to be the same - very much improved, organic mic'd acoustic guitar tone to the front of house in a live situation and as another track source
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 12-05-2017, 03:49 PM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,111
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by doublescale1 View Post
Reading through this thread and watching all the You Tube videos the Tone Dexter seems like a DIY kind of Fishman Aura system - combining the mic'd attributes of the guitar with the real-time playing to push that blended signal to the PA or record desk. The Tone Dexter allows you to choose the mic's you use, unlike the long list of pre-imaged mic's with the Fishman Aura Gallery - but the net effect seems to be the same - very much improved, organic mic'd acoustic guitar tone to the front of house in a live situation and as another track source
Creating WaveMaps for one's personal instruments is the equivalent of being able to acquire custom Aura sound images for one's personal instruments - at a much lower cost and with no need to ship your instruments to Fishman. Aside from the lower cost, two other advantages of ToneDexter are that its very compatible with soundboard transducers (Aura is only recommended for use with undersaddle transducers) and that ToneDexter's way of achieving a drier, more focused signal doesn't involve blending a quacky UST signal with the processed signal.

Last edited by guitaniac; 12-05-2017 at 03:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 12-05-2017, 04:45 PM
Cuki79 Cuki79 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 749
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitaniac View Post
Creating WaveMaps for one's personal instruments is the equivalent of being able to acquire custom Aura sound images for one's personal instruments - at a much lower cost and with no need to ship your instruments to Fishman. Aside from the lower cost, two other advantages of ToneDexter are that its very compatible with soundboard transducers (Aura is only recommended for use with undersaddle transducers) and that ToneDexter's way of achieving a drier, more focused signal doesn't involve blending a quacky UST signal with the processed signal.
Great definition. Note that Tonedexter way of achieving a drier signal (character button - min phase IR) is super efficient with K&K or Lyric where I think blending is useless. On the opposite, blending for UST is definetly something that works.

My 2 cents, based on my own experience making IRs.
Cuki
__________________
Martin D-18 (2012) Lyric gilgaus mod + EPSI IR
Martin HD-28 (2014) Trance Audio Amulet M-VT
Taylor GS Mini-e Bass (2017)

Gibson Les Paul Standard 1958 Reissue (2013)
Fender Stratocaster American Vintage 1954 (2014)
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 12-05-2017, 05:54 PM
Ken Carr Ken Carr is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 10
Default

Through watching reviews of the Godin nylon grand concert duet ambiance, I have been considering saving up for one. The modelled tones are beautiful. I was wondering if similar results could be obtained by using the Tonedexter in combination with a different Godin nylon-string multiac that doesn't have the Fishman electronics. It would be nice to have a synth-access nylon-string Godin, but to also be able to use the TD to get a more realistic natural mic'd sound as well.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 12-05-2017, 11:14 PM
Chipotle Chipotle is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 120
Default

I have a Composite Acoustics GX that I ordered with the Fishman Aura, but the ToneDexter really intrigues me for other guitars. In particular, a 1937 Gibson L-7 I just acquired. I don't want to make any mods to it.

A Pickup the World Archtop pickup would go under the existing bridge, and seems like it might work well with the ToneDexter. The PUTW site says it's a "compression type" pickup--would that be more like a UST or a SBT? Either way, it ought to work with the TD, right?
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 12-06-2017, 07:53 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,111
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuki79 View Post
Great definition. Note that Tonedexter way of achieving a drier signal (character button - min phase IR) is super efficient with K&K or Lyric where I think blending is useless. On the opposite, blending for UST is definetly something that works.

My 2 cents, based on my own experience making IRs.
Cuki
I agree that blending in dry UST signal works decently well with Aura, but it definitely doesn't eliminate the quack in the dry portion of the signal. I did many recording experiments while owning the Aura Spectrum and the results were either too ambient sounding for my taste or somewhat quacky (with hard strumming) due to the dry UST signal in the blend.

On the other hand, ToneDexter is satisfying my home recording needs right off the bat. I trained a WaveMap for my cheapo Samick OM yesterday. I used a cheap omni-directional condenser mic (Behringer ECM8000) to train, and the impromtu sound samples which I recorded are quite pleasing to me (in sound quality, at least).

The samples include some pretty aggressive strumming, with zero "quack" (by my definition) resulting.

https://soundcloud.com/guitaniac/ton...s-bare-fingers
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Acoustic Amplification

Thread Tools



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=