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  #46  
Old 03-14-2017, 04:38 AM
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Originally Posted by martingitdave View Post
For those interested, the MLS800 has (6) 2.75" drivers in the array. They are angled 30 degrees off the center axis. This should, in theory, give you something close to 150 degrees coverage. No idea if that's true. My rec room isn't big enough to test.

Also the x-over point is 200Hz for the sub and 180Hz for the array. So there is a 20Hz overlap that could, according to Cuki's theory, be out of phase up close. If so, I haven't noticed in my reasonably loud rehearsal, or with recorded music. Maybe that's how they solved it.

Lastly, to correct some previous information, the unit weighs 39 lbs total. The sub is 28 lbs with a decent handle. The tops are 11 lbs and have a nice shoulder/carry bag. So you're not lifting 40 plus lbs from the floor, at once.

Like I said above, the road worthiness of this is suspect. The pots and knobs are kind of cheap and the plastic connectors aren't too impressive. However, for light use, they will work fine.

I suspect the Music Group's largest (60 lb) Turbosound iP2000 product would be more road worthy because the cabinet is made of birch plywood. I didn't need the 1,000 watt (16 x 2.75" and 1 x 12") system, however. The (54 lb) iP1000 (8 x 2.75, 2 x 8") would be comparable in price to the Harbinger, but would presumably hold up better.

Oddly enough, the Turbosound iP500 appears to be a step down from the Harbinger. They share the same number of speakers, but they are smaller: (6 x 2.0" and 1 x 8"), and they share the ABS construction. The IP500 only claims 100 deg horizontal coverage. The MLS800 has about 15% more power and bi-amped class D amplifier. The iP500 uses a class D for the sub and class AB amp for the array. The Harbinger also has more direct control. They weight close to the same. The iP500 comes with a cover and costs $200 less retail. It seems like the iP500 would be the lowest cost/value winner. The iP2000 would be one of the most powerful of the compact line arrays. It does appear some sort of mixer, or iPad is needed.



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Congrats on the new rig. You did your homework and came out with the best solution for you. Its good you got to try out the turbsound. I think its a great low cost solution but you also reinforce a review I read in German which says the build construction may have been less road worthy than some of the others. They returned it for the Maui 11 which they say is not only a more rugged build but sounds better as well. I think I have my mind set on the Maui 5 but I need to try one first.

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  #47  
Old 03-14-2017, 06:52 AM
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Congrats on the new rig. You did your homework and came out with the best solution for you. Its good you got to try out the turbsound. I think its a great low cost solution but you also reinforce a review I read in German which says the build construction may have been less road worthy than some of the others. They returned it for the Maui 11 which they say is not only a more rugged build but sounds better as well. I think I have my mind set on the Maui 5 but I need to try one first.

Thanks! I think we're all starting to converge on the right systems for our needs. The Maui 5 looks good to me too. We don't have any here to test. And, for me, the real advantage of the Harbinger was the ability to play through it, trade my stuff, and walk out the door with it - $100 poorer. If I had been starting from scratch, I might have ordered a Turbosound, Maui, Nano, etc. online from a store with a return policy.


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Old 03-14-2017, 07:38 AM
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Thanks! I think we're all starting to converge on the right systems for our needs. The Maui 5 looks good to me too. We don't have any here to test. And, for me, the real advantage of the Harbinger was the ability to play through it, trade my stuff, and walk out the door with it - $100 poorer. If I had been starting from scratch, I might have ordered a Turbosound, Maui, Nano, etc. online from a store with a return policy.


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Thomann HQ is "only" a 5hr drive and I have the ability to test all of the above including the RFC Evox 5 which is similar to the Maui 5, IP500 etc. BUT it costs double than that of the Maui 5. Since I am starting from scratch I need to keep costs down so I can get a good mic and mixer as well. For the last 15 years I have only been a guitar player with a guitar......or two......or five but who's counting? So now I am ready to go out and do my own thing but I need sound reinforcement that works great at home and at small gigs. I may just order the Maui 5 sight unseen and unheard. I know if I do go to Thomann I will be bringing home more than just a P.A. Say hello to guitar #6 and #7 and my wife threatening divorce. Lol
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Old 03-14-2017, 07:49 AM
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Thomann HQ is "only" a 5hr drive and I have the ability to test all of the above including the RFC Evox 5 which is similar to the Maui 5, IP500 etc. BUT it costs double than that of the Maui 5. Since I am starting from scratch I need to keep costs down so I can get a good mic and mixer as well. For the last 15 years I have only been a guitar player with a guitar......or two......or five but who's counting? So now I am ready to go out and do my own thing but I need sound reinforcement that works great at home and at small gigs. I may just order the Maui 5 sight unseen and unheard. I know if I do go to Thomann I will be bringing home more than just a P.A. Say hello to guitar #6 and #7 and my wife threatening divorce. Lol
Yes, trips to those stores are dangerous to marriages. I really like the Maui 5 design for small reinforcement. The 4 channels with a set of stereo XLRs into the back is super smart for a mixer. I've never heard one, so I'll assume it is, at least, equally as good.

Allow me to plant the seeds of interest for the Behringer XR12 digital mixer. I just found a discounted one on eBay. I've been reading this manual and reviewing the app. Looks like a great solution and gives you all the simultaneous effects you can shake a stick at.

If I were going to gig nightly with a compact unit, I would buy the EVOX 8 with the XR12 digital mixer. After reading about all of these units, that appears to be the best built, most power, and cleanest sounding. The 12" sub gives you enough heft for bass instruments too. And, with the mixer you could add a second one and probably do a small band.

The EVOX 5 looks good too. In the US it's $1000, which isn't totally unreasonable.

But, if you're going to buy something road worthy, it seems to me that you would opt for the EVOX 8 unit with more power at $2,000 with the XR12 mixer, bags, etc. At this ~$2k price point, I like it better than the Bose L1S/B1 with tone-match, or the Fishman SA330x with expansion and sub.

Gotta admit, the engineer in me loves reading about, and discussing, Acoustic amplification.

Over the years, I've been all over the map in terms of PA equipment.

I started with my old Peavy 15" cabs and 8 channel powered mixer that weighed about 175 lbs combined. That served me well for 6 years I had a band with my twin brother.

Then, I quit and sold my stuff and didn't play out for 15 years except for church, occasional coffee houses, and weekly sessions at an authentic Irish pub with ex pats. No amplification needed. I can sing and play loud! Recall the Irish reference.

In the ensuing period, my wife encouraged me to play out again and bought me a Fishman Loudbox Mini for practice at home.

I connected with another guy who wanted to start a duo, sold the mini, and bought the Fishman SA220 on sale. (I should have kept the mini for practice. Plus, it was bad taste to sell a gift my wife gave me. Thus began the bad amplification Karma.)

That duo fizzled and I sold the SA220 because I didn't think I needed a $1000 system for practice at home. (In hindsight, I should have kept it for future use.)

I went back to buy another LB Mini for home use, and bought an open box Line 6 L2t based on Ken's advice. That was a good unit, but with a 10" woofer, it's not great at real low volume. I could make it work at low volume in monitor mode, but I couldn't reach the dang controls and power switch without flipping it over! I got inspired to play out with it a few times. Sounded real good.

Through a buddy, I got connected with a wine bar. I showed up for a gig and discovered the room is about 75 feet long and split in two! My L2t had to be really cranked to get to the back of the room. This would have been a good application for the Bose L1 M2.

I already have hearing/nerve damage and wear hearing devices now. I won't subject my ears to that decibel level any more. I don't want to be deaf in a few years.

In preparation for the next time, I got a Carvin S600 to reach the back of the room. That was even worse for use at home and made too much to carry to the bar. I also learned that the farmers market I'm supposed to play at this summer has power, so the S600 battery feature was moot. The club sound guy offered to do sound for that anyway. I returned the S600.

I recalled the reasons I stopped doing this. I don't need the money, my wife doesn't like me gone so much, and it's a pain in the rear. Plus, there are guys who actually need the gig to make ends meet.

Now, I'm playing in situations where PA equipment is provided: church, charity band (we even rent pro rehearsal space with built in PA), and our Folk music club.

All I need is something cheap, that sounds good at modest volume, so I can rehearse and not annoy my wife. And, the fact that I can potentially take it somewhere to play for 50 or less quiet, folk music loving people, is a bonus. I could have bought an amp, but frankly, I prefer full range PA equipment. Even the cheap stuff sounds better to me than an amp.

The new XR12 mixer is a (clandestine) experiment for our club that is presently using a somewhat antiquated powered Peavy mixer and passive speakers. The system sounds good, but it's a lot to haul around for our needs.

I'm also hedging for the future, because history suggests that I'll want to go play out again. :-). I'll have the mixer setup and available. I've learned that speakers are a dime a dozen. If you have the right mixer and processing, pretty much any full range powered PA speaker(s) (6.5" array or 2-way 8s, 10s, 12s, etc.) sound good for acoustic music. The perfect all-in-one solutions are either imaginary, or too expensive for my needs.

So, I can just grab some cheap powered speakers (like Alto Troupers), hook up the mixer and go. I keep the speaker stands, mic stands, mics, and cables hidden in my basement closet.

My little fantasy is to start a family folk group with my little girls. Amplification is the least of my worries. They don't like to sing in public, despite lovely little voices, (recall the Irish reference) and won't practice their instruments.

*evil grin*

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Last edited by martingitdave; 03-14-2017 at 10:08 AM.
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  #50  
Old 03-14-2017, 10:04 AM
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Yes, trips to those stores are dangerous to marriages. I really like the Maui 5 design for small reinforcement. The 4 channels with a set of stereo XLRs into the back is super smart for a mixer. I've never heard one, so I'll assume it is, at least, equally as good.

Allow me to plant the seeds of interest for the Behringer XR12 digital mixer. I just found a discounted one on eBay. I've been reading this manual and reviewing the app. Looks like a great solution and gives you all the simultaneous effects you can shake a stick at.

BTW, I were going to gig nightly with a compact unit, I would have bought the EVOX 8 with the XR12 digital mixer. After reading about all of these units, that appears to be the best built, most power, and cleanest sounding. The EVOX 5 looks good too. In the US it's $1000, which isn't totally unreasonable.

But, if you're going to buy something road worthy, it seems to me that you would opt for the EVOX 8 unit with more power at $2,000 with the XR12 mixer, bags, etc. At this ~$2k price point, I like it better than the Bose L1S/B1 with tone-match, or the Fishman SA330x with expansion and sub.

Gotta admit, the engineer in me loves reading about, and discussing, Acoustic amplification.

Over the years, I've been all over the map in terms of PA equipment.

I started with my old Peavy 15" cabs and 8 channel powered mixer that weighed about 175 lbs combined. That served me well for 6 years I had a band with my twin brother.

Then, I quit and sold my stuff and didn't play out for 15 years except for church, occasional coffee houses, and weekly sessions at an authentic Irish pub with ex pats. No amplification needed. I can sing and play loud! Recall the Irish reference.

In the ensuing period, my wife encouraged me to play out again and bought me a Fishman Loudbox Mini for practice at home.

I connected with another guy who wanted to start a duo, sold the mini, and bought the Fishman SA220 on sale. (I should have kept the mini for practice. Plus, it was bad taste to sell a gift my wife gave me. Thus began the bad amplification Karma.)

That duo fizzled and I sold the SA220 because I didn't think I needed a $1000 system for practice at home. (In hindsight, I should have kept it for future use.)

I went back to buy another LB Mini for home use, and bought an open box Line 6 L2t based on Ken's advice. That was a good unit, but with a 10" woofer, it's not great at real low volume. I could make it work at low volume in monitor mode, but I couldn't reach the dang controls and power switch without flipping it over! I got inspired to play out with it a few times. Sounded real good.

Through a buddy, I got connected with a wine bar. I showed up for a gig and discovered the room is about 75 feet long and split in two! My L2t had to be really cranked to get to the back of the room. This would have been a good application for the Bose L1 M2.

I already have hearing/nerve damage and wear hearing devices now. I won't subject my ears to that decibel level any more. I don't want to be deaf in a few years.

In preparation for the next time, I got a Carvin S600 to reach the back of the room. That was even worse for use at home and made too much to carry to the bar. I also learned that the farmers market I'm supposed to play at this summer has power, so the S600 battery feature was moot. The club sound guy offered to do sound for that anyway. I returned the S600.

I recalled the reasons I stopped doing this. I don't need the money, my wife doesn't like me gone so much, and it's a pain in the rear. Plus, there are guys who actually need the gig to make ends meet.

Now, I'm playing in situations where PA equipment is provided: church, charity band (we even rent pro rehearsal space with built in PA), and our Folk music club.

All I need is something cheap, that sounds good at modest volume, so I can rehearse and not annoy my wife. And, the fact that I can potentially take it somewhere to play for 50 or less quiet, folk music loving people, is a bonus. I could have bought an amp, but frankly, I prefer full range PA equipment. Even the cheap stuff sounds better to me than an amp.

The new XR12 mixer is a (clandestine) experiment for our club that is presently using a somewhat antiquated powered Peavy mixer and passive speakers. The system sounds good, but it's a lot to haul around for our needs.

I'm also hedging for the future, because history suggests that I'll want to go play out again. :-). I'll have the mixer setup and available. I've learned that speakers are a dime a dozen. If you have the right mixer and processing, pretty much any full range powered PA speaker(s) (6.5" array or 2-way 8s, 10s, 12s, etc.) sound good for acoustic music. The perfect all-in-one solutions are either imaginary, or too expensive for my needs.

So, I can just grab some cheap powered speakers (like Alto Troupers), hook up the mixer and go. I keep the speaker stands, mic stands, mics, and cables hidden in my basement closet.

My little fantasy is to start a family folk group with my little girls. Amplification is the least of my worries. They don't like to sing in public, despite lovely little voices, (recall the Irish reference) and won't practice their instruments.

*evil grin*

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
And here I was all set for a Zed10FX and this X12 is basically the same price that I can get locally. Going to have to read some more reviews......thanks Dave.
Lol, no really thanks. I enjoyed reading your journey. And you saved me from getting a S600. If Carvin wasn't so focused on festival volumes something like a smaller S600 that mated with. TRX would be perfect. Of course, as soon as I buy *whatever* something perfect for me will be released. Murphy's law.
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Old 03-14-2017, 11:04 AM
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And here I was all set for a Zed10FX and this X12 is basically the same price that I can get locally. Going to have to read some more reviews......thanks Dave.
Lol, no really thanks. I enjoyed reading your journey. And you saved me from getting a S600. If Carvin wasn't so focused on festival volumes something like a smaller S600 that mated with. TRX would be perfect. Of course, as soon as I buy *whatever* something perfect for me will be released. Murphy's law.
If you can live with the iPad, the XR12 has every special feature found on the Zed. The XR also has compressor, para EQ, and gate for every channel, plus the benefit of 4 simultaneous stereo studio quality effects. That's worth the iPad hassle to me. Of course, it's only talk at this point. I haven't even received it yet. :-)
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Old 03-14-2017, 11:36 AM
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The xr12 has a lot of features but I am not sure we do need all of them. I ve tried once the mic mechanic, found it great... But after a bit of time, thought that I could get a good sound just using an EQ. Same thing happened to me with the compressor on the Yamaha mg10xu, the more I sang, the less I used the EQ... At the end I felt a good mic technic was better than any digital fx...

That s also why I went with the zed 10 fx... I don't like to add any digital treatment unless it's compulsory... At the end, you get digital conversion with the Tc pedals, the xr12 mixer, the line array dsp... You lose a lot of dynamic and "feel" and it starts to sound artificial...

As fas martinguitardave problematic, the best sound I've ever achieved home for rehearsal (in a singer songwriter configuration) is with studio monitoring speakers. The boss of my next door music shop told me that. Amps and p.a. Are made to project sound loud. If you want fidelity and emotion at home, just use studio monitoring amplified speakers (like presonus eris 8 for ex):. He was right.

Did not keep that configuration long for esthetic reason... But if I ever find ones with wood finish I would definitely pull the trigger

I think it is not such a big deal to have both studio monitoring speakers for home and a p.a. For live... However, it does not work for band. But I am not sure line arrays are suited for bands anyway.

Here are for example the spectrum for Presonus Eris E8 (blue) and M-audio M3-6 (orange)

It is much flatter than the

Here are is the JBL eon one (red in axis)
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Old 03-14-2017, 01:56 PM
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Great post Cuki!

You're right about PA versus monitors for studio and home use. There is a big difference in sound at different decibel levels. The way we hear it, and the way it travels. You seem to be reading my mind lately! Did you have Obama "tapp" my phones too? :-)

I actually have a pair of inexpensive studio monitors I purchased for recording, that I intend to use with the XR mixer. I want to record my original songs using the USB two track onto flash media, or the ipad.

I had an iPad interface from Focus Rite that allows you to slip an iPad 2 into it. Well, doesn't work with the new iPads! Both the lighting connector and the size of the iPad Pro I use for work makes that thing as useless as a paper weight.

As far as processing with the new XR goes, your argument is solid. Less is usually more. If I decide to go with the digital mixer, I'll be dumping the pedals. I don't want the extra D/A stage.

In reality, I don't need the TC pedal either. My new pickups (K&K Active and Trance Amulet M) sound great with a little EQ and reverb. Same with my voice. If you have a crappy "quacky" pickup, the Bodyrez functions can do wonders.

I do like the other fancy features, but they aren't necessary. And, if you're not careful, all the dang footswitches can distract you from your performance. I could never be a looper. I'm not coordinated enough. With all that footswitch tapping, I'd probably trip and hit myself in the face with the mic.

In case you're curious, I did my homework on the TC Helicon products last night. I think you can get close to their process with the XR mixer DSP. If so, I could sell the Play Acoustic pedal. Smart sound engineers (even some live sound guys) have been doing this stuff forever. It just required huge racks of gear. Now it all fits in half of a shoebox programmed for dummies.

For instance:

The mic mechanic "tone" processing consists of:


1. Adaptive parametric EQ. They seem to use an IR to adapt your vocal EQ to a "ideal" model. The MM2 pedal offer two "ideals", the PA product offers 5 or so. You can't duplicate this with the mixer as far as I know. But, I think I'm consistent enough to use a para EQ on the mixer. I'm finding that a boost in the mid/high (I'm a tenor) really makes my voice project against the rosewood/spruce guitars I play. "Ideal" depends on what guitar you play. In some cases you might need to make a "hole" for your vocals. The pedal can't do that easily.

2. De-ess. This is a built in effect in the XR mixer. No difference except the XR can filter both high and low sibilance. Nifty. Yeah - something easy!

3. Gating. This is a default built into every XR channel. And, they have presets for vocals and acoustic guitar built in. Yeah - something else easy!

4. Compression. This is also a default built into every XR channel. And, they have presets for vocals and acoustic guitar built in. Yeah - something else "else" easy!

I don't use the harmony or pitch correction features. The mixer has all the other effects you could ever want, or not want, including doubler. So, that seems like a pretty easy way to apply mic mechanic 2 for the price of a mixer.

Next up... Bodyrez. This is not overly complicated but, but seems to be a bit tricky. The XR has a 4 band para EQ for each channel. Conveniently, the Play Acoustic uses a 4 band para EQ too.

1. High and low shelf EQ. I can read the parameters right from the unit and apply the shelves in the XR interface on the high and low.

2. Parametric EQ for the middle. The XR still has 2 more mid bands to apply para EQ, as does the Play Acoustic. Just pick your favorite sounding preset and go to advanced mode to copy the frequency, width, and gain settings. Done.

3. Basic Compressor. I mentioned that each XR channel has a compressor with an acoustic preset. If you want to dig deeper, you can copy these settings from your Play Acoustic over to the XR by using the advanced setting for the channel compressor. You need: threshold, attach, makeup gain, ratio, and release.

4. Ambiance. Ah ha! Now, it gets interesting and tricky. This is the special sauce - a timing filter. It's the "rez" in the BodyRez. I don't have an answer because I don't have the XR unit yet to try. My suspicion is that I can use something in one of the 4 effects blocks. Why? No good reason. Kidding aside, this is where a nice pickup comes in. You tame the quack with the stuff above. Picking up body resonance can be done with a dual source mic, or a "spatially" aware pickup like the Trance. I'm not sure that the ambiance feature is needed with those pickups. I will let you know what I discover.

5. Anti-feedback. All of this is available in the XR mixer. Phase invert, low cut filter, manual notch filter,

The rest is just guitar effects which are generally the same in the Play Acoustic as the XR mixer. I know audiophile types get hung up on the magic in some of these effects. I'm not quite as picky. Good reverb is good reverb. Bad reverb is easy to hear and avoid.

Note: I am NOT going to publicly share the specific parameters you need to replicate the Play Acoustic on the forum. Please don't ask me to send them. (Except you Cuki - you're my man.)

TC Helicon deserves to make a buck for figuring all this stuff out and packaging it into a small box for idiots like us. It's their intellectual property, not mine. But, since I already own a Play Acoustic, I feel entitled to copy my favorite settings over to the XR mixer.
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Last edited by martingitdave; 03-14-2017 at 02:27 PM.
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Old 03-14-2017, 03:12 PM
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Adaptive parametric EQ
I "think" the adaptative EQ from TC is basically a mid boost and a low cut with a frequency that is tuned with respect to the vocals. I guess it detects if it is a male or female voice and then adjust the frequency.


For the "ambiance", here are my 2 cents:
If your guitar is rosewood, I would had a very short reverb or delay to replicate the guitar "box". The slight delay will increase the perception of bass and give that metallic resonance rosewood have. (Rosewood is said to reflect sound very well)

If it is mahogany, I would use a shorter reverb, to get the mahogany damping and send it to an AUX channel to have multiband EQ or parametric EQ on the reverb tail. (Mahogany is said to absorb the sound more, but it could depend on frequencies)

I may be totally wrong, but I would try that first... Only a luthier could answer that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by martingitdave View Post
Note: I am NOT going to publicly share the specific parameters you need to replicate the Play Acoustic on the forum. Please don't ask me to send them. (Except you Cuki - you're my man.)
Thanks for the offer, I have already my "own thing" with the IR making and few ideas to improve it.

As far as the publication is concerned, I think there is no danger for TC Helicon. TC's Helicon policy is to use DSP to make things simple to people. I think it is very different from TC electronic pedals wich enable via toneprint to tune almost everything. (I consider Bodyrez being a TC helicon product as I think it appeared first in the Play acoustic)

Most mid-price TC Helicon products are as simple as it gets. You push one button, and it does the job. They never claimed to make revolutionary things, they always claimed to put a rack of known FX and the engineer who set them into one pedal with max 3 buttons. People who would look for their parameters to manually tweak FX do not belong to their market target.

I think TC Helicon makes great products, I wish they had manual parametric EQ and convolution reverb with 1.5s IR... I am always frustrated by the limited parameters.

PS: One thing you could do is send me wav files (mic and pickup) so I can make you an IR, and we could "fit" the impulse response with 5 filters. Then I could give you the best approximation you could get for the XR12. That would be fun too. We could probably also determine what would be the correct reverb tail length... Of course I hope the IR will always outperform any Eq-Reverb combination. Somehow, I am quite confident. (although it took me 2 months to make something decent for Doug Young

PS2: I look forward a RMS option in the TC hypergravity pedal. Then you'd be able to tweak your own multiband compressor as in LR Baggs session DI. (which includes peak and RMS compression at different frequencies). RMS compression does not compress with respect to peak but to total energy. So you can have no compression when playing single notes solos and compression when you strum chords... I know usually youd need the opposite. Because compression can make your solo sound more even.

But I have a strange feeling that when you play chords, the top saturates a bit and the mids do not react similarly to single note playing... Could be wrong. Anyway I have to rule out another idea first in my acoustic-electric guitar sound quest

Sorry for the digression.

PS3: Note the XR12 have only 2.4 GHz WIFI frequency, be sure there are not to many WIFI around you when using the XR12. You may experience trouble with the Ipad connection.

Cuki
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Fender Stratocaster American Vintage 1954 (2014)

Last edited by Cuki79; 03-14-2017 at 03:18 PM.
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Old 03-14-2017, 03:23 PM
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Waaaay too many features for me. I like to keep things simple if I can. I'm still in knob tweaking hell with my Boss GT 100. Although I did create a patch that really sounds great with my J-45. Hard to tell its even plugged in, a very natural and clean sound. Now I'm trying to dial in my ambient soundscape sounds. And when Ive had enough tweaking and knob turning with one stomp I'm "pounding out aggresion" on a high gain stack. Its just sooo much fun pounding out chunky metal riffs on your acoustic guitar. LOVE IT. After you get a few patches organized the way you want the GT-100 is almost stupid easy. No need to tap dance and yes it works wonderfully well with acoustic guitars. I was actually surprised how well acoustics works with this unit.
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Old 03-14-2017, 03:45 PM
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Thanks Cuki, this has been fun. I love the IR stuff you're doing. When Tondexter finally comes out, I think a lot of people will give it a try. I was just preparing an edit for my post on the ambience. I was going to post that a delay/reverb effect might provide an approximate solution. Then I read your post. Now I'm POSITIVE you've bugged my office! :-)

In the meantime, I still need to setup my recording stuff to do the WAV captures for you to compute. And, I'm not sure if I'm ready to jump down that rabbit hole yet. I've given myself a headache with this "simple" stuff. LOL

NotValid: C'mon man! You're half way down the rabbit hole already. If you think you're going to make it out of here without learning parametric EQ editing, you're fooling yourself. Give in to the Dark Side.
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Old 03-14-2017, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martingitdave View Post

NotValid: C'mon man! You're half way down the rabbit hole already. Give in to the Dark Side.
Must. Refuse. The. Dark. Si.......Ok, I'm all in. Where to now?
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Old 03-14-2017, 04:14 PM
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Ok, good. First you need to brush up on your Fourier transforms. See Cuki for an explanation.


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Old 03-14-2017, 05:22 PM
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Just got the mixer at the office from FedEx. Wow that was fast! I had 20 min to play with it before I left. I like the interface. I got a sample configuration built with basic effects and flat EQ. I'll play with the stuff above tonight.


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Old 03-14-2017, 11:45 PM
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Default Dave's compact PA system adventures...

Ok fellow nerds...

I did it. I spent 2 hours and recreated the TC Helicon Play Acoustic (baseline) settings with the XR mixer. As per my post above, I copied the settings over.

As far as the tricky "ambiance" component is concerned, Cuki was right about it being a subtle reverb tail. Even better, the XR comes with "Ambiance" reverb effect. I thought to myself "nah, it couldn't be that easy, could it?" It was. My "home made" BodyRez feature works perfectly. I ended up modeling BodyRez 1, which is the default version for the stomp box. Actually, I made two versions. One with the enhanced bass and low cut shelf, and one that had a flat low cut shelf. Bye bye piezo quack!

For the vocals, I added the components above. The para EQ for vocals was the hardest part. I ended up referring to a few websites for sound engineers. I created two "ideal" models for male and female singers from their instructions. I made the male a Tenor voice part model. The female is Mezzo Soprano. Besides para EQ, I added the rest of the TC Helicon vocal "recipe" including gate, low cut, compressor, sibilance filter, hall reverb, and a touch of doubling.

The obvious questions are "why bother?", and "why not just use the pedal you already have?" No worries, I'll use the TC pedal when I'm by myself going into a PA. I'll have the basic foot switch control handy. And, I might dabble in harmonies. However, if I find myself playing with one or more people, I now have 4 virtual "mic mechanic 2" pedals available, and at least 2 (high z input) virtual "BodyRez" pedals. Each with a couple of options programmed in. The other 6 channels can be whatever they want. However, other instruments will need an impedance matching DI, because this unit comes with only 2 (high z) channels that I am dedicating to acoustic guitars.

On the negative side, I found that the noise floor emanating from the Harbinger MLS800 class D amplifier is higher than I would like. A lot higher. It's definitely coming from the final stage of amplification. I think I'll box it up and take it back to GC Thursday. I'll probably order a JBL EON One, TurboSound iP500, 1000, or 2000 or Maui 5. I might also consider the Evox.

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Last edited by martingitdave; 03-15-2017 at 12:06 AM.
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