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Old 02-07-2015, 08:50 AM
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Default Another stereo mic technique

Just read this in a thread on GS. Thought it was an interesting technique to try. This was posted in a Q and A thread with the very successful recording engineer Eric Valentine, who has a string of top artist credits. From Nickel Creek to Joe Satriani, et al.

I do use a particular micing technique I like for getting a big stereo acoustic guitar sound. I like getting the strings to pan across the stereo field. So you put one mic above the guitar angled down and one mic below the guitar angled up equal distances both pointing at the neck. The mic above gets more of the lower strings and the mic below gets more of the higher strings. I never really liked the thing of putting one mic near the bridge and one near the neck. The 2 mics sound too different and create kind of an odd irrelevant stereo image.
I really like being able to hear the placement of the notes across the stereo field kind of like a piano. Seems to be a more meaningful stereo image. The 2 mics are basically at a 90deg angle from eachother both pointing at the neck of the guitar. You can change the voicing of the pair by moving their orientation to the guitar. i find that pointing them at around the 15th fret seems to get the most natural balance. If you put them more in front of the sound hole it will get bassier and woodier, if you move closer to the 12th fret it gets brighter and more sparkly. I have used a variety of mics in this configuration: 67s, 251s, coles 4038s and more recently shoeps 221Bs. The shoeps were pretty wonderful. I didn't have to EQ them at all when recording, mixing or mastering.
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Old 02-07-2015, 09:32 AM
littlewing6283 littlewing6283 is offline
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that interesting i might have to add that to my experiment list. Sounds like it would be easier to do with SDCs
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Old 02-07-2015, 10:07 AM
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One of many methods. I would like to hear a solo guitar recording of his (not a guitar as part of a mix). My guess on the results of the method he described (up the neck especially) has more to do with floor reflections (and other more distant reflections) than sound directly out of the guitar. Mike placement and room acoustics again.
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Old 02-07-2015, 11:03 AM
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Maybe I'm not understanding, but this sounds similar to the examples 815C posted recently:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=366090

and my attempt to mimic it:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=367248

He's not above and below, but he's pointing up and down, so I guess it's sort of the reverse of it.

It also seems similar to the setup that Pete Huttlinger uses (and Bob Womack has recommended it, too), which is sort of a vertical spaced pair, with one mic above pointing down, and one below pointed up, but at about a 90 degree angle. Mics aren't *that* directional, so it seems this would be very close. I've never gotten this setup to work well for me, but Pete makes it sound great.
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Old 02-07-2015, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
Maybe I'm not understanding, but this sounds similar to the examples 815C posted recently:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=366090

and my attempt to mimic it:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=367248

He's not above and below, but he's pointing up and down, so I guess it's sort of the reverse of it.

It also seems similar to the setup that Pete Huttlinger uses (and Bob Womack has recommended it, too), which is sort of a vertical spaced pair, with one mic above pointing down, and one below pointed up, but at about a 90 degree angle. Mics aren't *that* directional, so it seems this would be very close. I've never gotten this setup to work well for me, but Pete makes it sound great.
The gist I got ( particularly the way he (Eric) was describing the low notes from upper mic and the treble notes from the lower mic), sound more like what I think, you are describing as what Huttlinger uses. A "vertical space pair " with the mic's perpendicular the guitar neck and at 90 degrees to each other. Which would logically give more emphasis by corresponding proximity to lower notes in the upper mic and highs to the lower mic based on how the guitar is strung. And then panning the two to get a stereo spread. It is something I am going to try.
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Old 02-07-2015, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
The gist I got ( particularly the way he (Eric) was describing the low notes from upper mic and the treble notes from the lower mic), sound more like what I think, you are describing as what Huttlinger uses. A "vertical space pair " with the mic's perpendicular the guitar neck and at 90 degrees to each other. Which would logically give more emphasis by corresponding proximity to lower notes in the upper mic and highs to the lower mic based on how the guitar is strung. And then panning the two to get a stereo spread. It is something I am going to try.
Yeah, I think the idea is the same in each case - have the stereo image span the strings instead of being neck on one side, lower bout on the other. The 815C approach is coincident, this approach is spaced pairs. I suspect there's a reason we don't see this approach commonly used, but it's always good to try new things. Let us know how it works for you, maybe I'll give it another try as well.
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Old 02-07-2015, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
Yeah, I think the idea is the same in each case - have the stereo image span the strings instead of being neck on one side, lower bout on the other. The 815C approach is coincident, this approach is spaced pairs. I suspect there's a reason we don't see this approach commonly used, but it's always good to try new things. Let us know how it works for you, maybe I'll give it another try as well.
I will do that for sure
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Old 02-07-2015, 04:16 PM
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Here's yet another variation of what appears to be a vertical setup. This photo has always fascinated me:



it appears he may have close mic'd pairs, possibly pointing up and down. I don't recognize the mics. But then there's a stereo Brauner way back in the room, and what appears to be yet another pair close together, also back in the room. There's also some kind of stand behind him that may have yet more room mics, hard to see. So at least 3 pairs of mics, maybe 4, with the close ones possibly vertical. The close up mics appear to be not matched. The bottom one seems to be clearly pointing up and down, hard to say about the other. Could possibly be MS?

This was for the Dream Guitars 1 CD, which was very nice sounding. No idea how all this was mixed, of course, maybe they didn't even use all those mics.
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Old 02-07-2015, 05:27 PM
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Isn't this just the same vertical spaced pair configuration shown as #6 in the "10 Microphone Placement Techniques for Acoustic Guitar" from the Cakewalk website?

There's a demonstration photo and a stereo sample of the recorded guitar to give you a good example of the stereo image and spread available with the technique.

https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Kno...coustic-Guitar
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Old 02-09-2015, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy4 View Post
Isn't this just the same vertical spaced pair configuration shown as #6 in the "10 Microphone Placement Techniques for Acoustic Guitar" from the Cakewalk website?

There's a demonstration photo and a stereo sample of the recorded guitar to give you a good example of the stereo image and spread available with the technique.

https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Kno...coustic-Guitar


One variable in this setup seems to be the width of your stereo mic bar. On the common 6"-8" flat bar, the two mics still may not be far enough apart in their 90 degree orientation to have the upper one point at the bass strings and the lower point at the treble. In the pic above they have a bigger space between the mics, which they achieve by using two separate stands. Any thoughts on this?
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Old 02-09-2015, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukejon View Post


One variable in this setup seems to be the width of your stereo mic bar. On the common 6"-8" flat bar, the two mics still may not be far enough apart in their 90 degree orientation to have the upper one point at the bass strings and the lower point at the treble. In the pic above they have a bigger space between the mics, which they achieve by using two separate stands. Any thoughts on this?
Yes I believe the positioning shown it the photo is exactly what Eric Valentine was describing. And yes It would seem that two mic stands would be involved then it's a matter of just shifting the guitar itself horizontally so the mic's are focused more or less towards body or neck to get the desired sound.
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