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Old 11-21-2003, 01:57 PM
FlashBazbo FlashBazbo is offline
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Default Gibson ES-335 vs. Epiphone Sheraton II?

I've craved a Gibson ES-335 for some years but I've never bought one. My guitar instructor has a 30-year old example that is just incredible. Of course, an ES-335 will set you back several dollars.

I just got back from Gibson's spec page for the ES-335. All laminated construction. Nothing special '57 PAF humbucking pickups. Basically an ES-135 with a thin body configuration. (And ES-135s cost at least $1,500 to $2,000 less.)

On the Epiphone website, the Sheraton II appears to have pretty much the same specs (except for the lack of '57 PAFs). All laminated construction. And it costs a couple thousand less than the ES-335.

I realize the Epi is an import and I realize that it has imported humbuckers (which would not be expensive to replace). But why is the ES-335 so expensive? And why is there so much difference in price between the two guitars? I know "Gibson" on the headstock raises the market price and so does the ES-335 heritage -- is the Epiphone Sheraton II a decent guitar? Is it a bargain or is it just a cheap guitar with specs that LOOK similar but really aren't?
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  #2  
Old 11-21-2003, 05:52 PM
kkrauss kkrauss is offline
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I have a Sheraton II, and it's very nicely made. Common wisdom is to swap out the tuners and the pickups, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. The gold plating on the hardware in kinda cheesy, but otherwise, I think it's as respectable an instrument as most of the Gibsons I've seen. The place where I bought it encouraged me to buy a Gibson ES-175 instead of the Sheraton to get the Gibson name, but the finish was globby on the Gibson, and I liked the sound and fit/finish of the Sheraton better.

They have an "Elite" series Epi now too, that is a step up from the standards, although a bit more pricey. Still not nearly as much as a genuine ES-335.

-Kent
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Old 11-26-2003, 08:36 AM
FlashBazbo FlashBazbo is offline
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Thanks for the information, Kent.

I went to my favorite electric guitar shop yesterday and was able to test Gibson's ES-335 and the equivalents from Epiphone and Epiphone Elite.

The Gibson sounded great and looked pretty good -- as you would expect. The craftsmanship wasn't terribly impressive, but it wasn't bad. The sound plugged in was good, but not great -- what do you want from standard Gibson '57 humbuckers?

The Epiphone Elite was nice with more flashy appointments than the Gibson. The craftsmanship was probably a little nicer than the Gibson's. The sound plugged in was okay -- not as good as the Gibson's, but good enough.

The Epiphone . . . well, it's a lot cheaper than the other two. The craftsmanship is much better than a Gibson Blues Hawk I once owned. It is nicer than some Gibsons, not as nice as others -- materials aren't as expensive, but the wood work is very well done -- impressively so. (These things vary.) The appointments . . . you wanted appointments? There aren't many, but there are Grover tuners and a better stopbar than was on my beloved Gibson Les Paul '60 Reissue. (The Epi stopbar already has the modifications I was planning to make to my Les Paul's stopbar.) Plugged in, the sound is good, but not great. All three guitars were surprisingly close plugged in, with the Epiphone Elite falling slightly behind the other two.

Then came the unplugged test. My objective, "I don't know nuttin' about guitars" listener (without knowing which guitar was most expensive, etc.) picked the Epiphone as the best sounding unplugged AND plugged in. I thought it and the Gibson were close. Both of us thought the Epiphone Elite earned a clear third place -- it seemed a little nasal.

Decisions? The Epiphone has zero prestige value. The Gibson has tradition and tons of vibe. Musicians will turn their noses up at the Epi. They'll worship the Gibson. But they sound and play incredibly similarly! Let's see . . . the Epi Elite costs three times what the Epi costs . . . the Gibson costs SIX times what the Epi costs.

After all this . . . I bought the cheapest guitar I've ever bought. The Epiphone Dot came home with me. Someday, it will likely see a different pair of humbuckers -- but so would the Gibson have. I'm surprised to like this guitar. Another bonus -- the big, garish Epiphone "E" on the pickguard fell off within the first fifteen minutes at home (just as I was thinking about how I was going to replace the pickguard to get rid of the "E").
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Old 11-26-2003, 08:45 AM
meridian meridian is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by FlashBazbo
The Epiphone has zero prestige value. The Gibson has tradition and tons of vibe. Musicians will turn their noses up at the Epi. They'll worship the Gibson.
Actually, I see lots of Epis these days in live performance (on video).

The Beatles used em (Paul, John & George). Lennon had one as his main axe for years (Casino). McCartney recorded "Yesterday" with an Epi acoustic.

You made a good choice, IMO.
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Last edited by meridian; 11-26-2003 at 03:51 PM.
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Old 11-26-2003, 08:55 AM
bukwheat bukwheat is offline
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Lightbulb ES335 vs. Epi

Flashbazbo, you got to ask yourself, "will I be happy with a copy?"
Cause thats what it comes down to, "do you want the REAL thing?"

Although, in your searches so far, you haven't found "the one", be patient and look around somemore, look for an older 335.

I, myself, have wanted a 335 for quite awhile, in fact for several years. I haven't found "the one" yet. But I know, its out there,somewhere and I would not be satisfied for very long with
a copy, but then again, when I buy a guitar, I plan on keeping it
for the rest of my life. I don't sell and trade, but I am pretty picky when it comes to parting with that much money.

Check a bunch of them out. Keep an open mind and have fun searching. Take your time.

bukwheat
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  #6  
Old 11-26-2003, 09:07 AM
Steve314 Steve314 is offline
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Default Re: Gibson ES-335 vs. Epiphone Sheraton II?

Quote:
Originally posted by FlashBazbo
I just got back from Gibson's spec page for the ES-335. All laminated construction. Nothing special '57 PAF humbucking pickups. Basically an ES-135 with a thin body configuration. (And ES-135s cost at least $1,500 to $2,000 less.)
The differences between the 135 and the 335 are pretty significant.

The center block on the ES-135 is Mahogany. On the ES-335, it's Maple. The ES-135 has a '59 Les Paul neck, where the ES-335 has the 60's Slim Taper neck. You get Nickel hardware on the ES-335, chrome on the ES-175. The neck on the ES-335 meets the neck at the 19th fret. The ES-135 is at the 16th.

The ES-135 is a one ha;f inch deeper than the ES-335, and the ES-135 is a single cutaway.

Also, the ES-135 has undergone a redesign. It used to have a trapeze tailpiece and F-holes. Both are now gone. The ES-135 now has a stop bar tailpiece and no F-holes. Another change is that the ES-135 comes in a satin finish only, where the ES-335 comes with a gloss finish.

Lastly, I've never seen a $2,000.00 price difference betweem the two...

Steve
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Old 11-26-2003, 09:23 AM
Ninjato Ninjato is offline
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I have a Sheraton II. I like it but the neck feels a little small for me compared to my Gibson Les Paul. Of course this is if necks are for the most part standard on Gibsons and Epiphones. Overall the Epi Sheraton II is a good guitar for the money. It plyas for like a solid body than a semi hollow. The pickups on mine came a little low so I raised them a bit. I play w/ D'Addario 13's on mine.
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Old 11-26-2003, 10:56 AM
FlashBazbo FlashBazbo is offline
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Default Re: ES335 vs. Epi

Quote:
Originally posted by bukwheat
Flashbazbo, you got to ask yourself, "will I be happy with a copy?"
Cause thats what it comes down to, "do you want the REAL thing?"

Although, in your searches so far, you haven't found "the one", be patient and look around somemore, look for an older 335.

I, myself, have wanted a 335 for quite awhile, in fact for several years. I haven't found "the one" yet. But I know, its out there,somewhere and I would not be satisfied for very long with
a copy, but then again, when I buy a guitar, I plan on keeping it
for the rest of my life. I don't sell and trade, but I am pretty picky when it comes to parting with that much money.

Check a bunch of them out. Keep an open mind and have fun searching. Take your time.

bukwheat
I understand what you're saying. My previous electric guitars have all been "the real thing" made-in-U.S.A. Gibsons and custom Carvins. I just recently sold a '60 reissue Les Paul that took most guitar aficionados' breath away.

A copy is sometimes better for certain purposes than an original, though. I don't care about "snob appeal." I've had guitars with "snob appeal" -- sometimes they deliver and sometimes they don't. (Besides, technically speaking, today's Gibsons are just copies of the true originals anyway. Have you seen what the true originals are going for????)

I buy guitars for two things: tone and playability. This Epi gives me 99% of the tone and all of the playability of the ES-335s I compared it to. As I said earlier, my non-guitar, but piano playing friend actually preferred the tone of the Epi to the Gibsons. (Admittedly, that would not be true of most copies.) No, it doesn't have the "bling bling" inlays. No, it doesn't have the Gibson name. No, it doesn't cost anywhere close to as much money. For what I need it for -- a fun instrument I play at home (99% of my gigging is on drums, 1% on acoustic guitar) -- the Epi is just about perfect.
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Old 11-26-2003, 10:59 AM
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Hondo Hondo is offline
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I have a Sheraton II. I used to have a '78 335. I like the feel of the Sheraton II better.

I doubt I'll sell this one, and I haven't replaced the pickups yet.

From what I understand, though, the humbuckers made by Heritage are incredible.

I'd check them out before I bought any other replacements. When I get around to changing mine - that's what I'm using.
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Old 11-26-2003, 11:07 AM
Boogie Boogie is offline
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I love hollow guitars!

I have owned several including an old Gibson L42 from the 40's, a 1967 ES 175, a late 60's Gretch Country Gentlemen and one of my favorites, a Late 60's Guild Starfire with Bigsby and two hummers. Two years ago I went on a search for another semi hollow guitar. These are my opinion, and I know, opinion are.. Well just opinions!

The new Gibson’s are expensive and in some of the models the workmanship was less than stellar. None of the new Gibson’s I played had that old Gibson mojo (with the exception of a couple of historic Les Paul's, but that is another topic all together). Some of the very expensive Gibson I played were very disappointing.

I liked the Epi's especially the Sheraton and the Joe pass model. For the money they are great! I thought that some of the examples had better workmanship that the Gibson’s.

But for me the, guilds had mojo. They were not as pretty to look at, but they had tone and feel beyond their counterparts.

I also thought very highly of the heritage guitars. I just hate the headstock shape. I know that is dumb but it is ugly to me. But they are some of the better hollow bodies made by any of the big manufactures.

Lastly, none of the Paul Reed Smiths turned me on. They were great guitars but they were not jazz blues boxes, they were just hollow rock guitars.

That, my friend is my $0.02!
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  #11  
Old 11-26-2003, 01:35 PM
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If I was looking for a 335...I wouldn't buy until I checked out the Heritage 535. Heritage is to Gibson what G&L is to Fender. Better quality at a more reasonable price.

-Matt
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