Playing Tommy Emmanuel with small hands - added my own thumb scallops!

tkoehler1 · #1 06-01-2014, 10:07 AM

I love playing Tommy's pieces, except I have small hands and Tommy has gargantuan hands. I have a hard time getting my thumb across the top of the fret board (think playing Keep It Simple for example). He does this all the time, and it's frustrating to be able to play 95% of a song but then lose it because my thumb is not long enough.

Then I came across a luthier that offers a thumb scallop - looks like a cool solution!

So my questions to the AGF brain trust are:

1. Do thumb scallops actually work - they allow you to use your thumb on the E string yet at the same time don't screw up barreing chords, etc.

2. Has anyone tried to modify their existing guitar with thumb scallops? How did you do it and what do you recommend? Any mistakes to avoid?

3. Any how to guides or anything like that out there? Seems to be little info on thumb scallops.

Thanks to all who respond!

TK

pgilmor · #2 06-01-2014, 10:42 AM

Wow, that's a new one on me. I'm not really sure you'd gain that much, but I guess it's possible. I do know that Maton guitars have very slender and narrow necks, though, very similar to many electrics. Have you tried it on a narrower neck, or are you already doing that?

KINGPAUL · #3 06-02-2014, 12:05 AM

Yep, I have done similar to my neck, I play a lot of thumb over on my electrics but struggled on my martin because of the sharp angle of the fingerboard, one day i got frustrated and took some fine sandpaper to it, i got the same results but not as extreme as the pic you posted, it is way better now for me, your results may vary, proceed with caution! I'm glad you asked the question tho cause until i saw your post i thought i was weird for doing it, and if you go for it just loosen the low E way up and get it out of the way, mind the frets and the nut, and go easy, a little at a time, I only did the first 5 sections and it only took a few mins, but I only took a little off to make it gentle, don't do it if your not comfortable! I have been working on my own stuff for well over 20 years so i know my limits, again, proceed with caution! Your results may vary! If your not comfortable it may not be a good idea to do your self, hate to sound repetative but its not worth screwing up a great guitar, JMHO.....

Mike McLenison · #4 06-02-2014, 12:26 AM

Wow, that seems a bit extreme, imo. Wouldn't it be better to install a new nut with the low E string closer to the fretboard edge and as low as possible?

brucefulton · #5 06-02-2014, 12:45 AM

With a very few exceptions, most of Emmanuel's thumb fingerings can be re-fingered to avoid the thumb wraparound. The only person that will sound like Emmanuel is Emmanuel. I think imitation is a valuable learning technique and it's worth trying and practicing to see where you get with it, but there are physiological differences and limitations, so at some point, one needs to make the music their own. Because I play a lot of his stuff on a wider neck classical, I just re-finger and adapt and move on. Unless your audience is a bunch of guitar-playing Emmanuel fans, no one will know the difference.

stephenT · #6 06-02-2014, 12:57 AM

That's a novel approach, hadn't seen that before. If it works, it's a great idea.

Barre chords wouldn't be effected, you're not touching the fret in the scalloping process.

Guitar1083 · #7 06-02-2014, 04:01 AM

Don't do it, there are other ways. Like a smaller neck for starters, smaller scale, 1-5/8 nut, takamine guitar with there neck design.

I see so many great classical guitarist, and they have really big necks, and tiny little hands.

Just keep at it, don't give up.

ruger9 · #8 06-02-2014, 04:12 AM

I've never heard of thumb scallops, but before I'd have it done to one of my guitars (unless it was a beater), I'd have to play them first to see if they worked for me.

Nut size is huge for this "thumb-over" technique, at least for me. I have played that way my whole life, all my guitars have been 1-11/16" nuts, and I recently got my 1st 1-3/4" nut, and am not having an easy time with the thumb-overs; I don't think it's something I'll be able to adapt to. Which really sucks, because I LOVE the new guitar otherwise.

You wouldn't think 1/16" would make that much difference, but it does to me.

[and yes, we all know neck profile also plays a role... but my guitars all have different profiles, and NONE of the 1-11/16" ones give me issues, and the 1-3/4" does... and it's a Recording King, which is a pretty thin neck... it's not chunky...]

srick · #9 06-02-2014, 04:18 AM

TE's thumb style is derived from Merle Travis. According to Thom Bresh, Travis had big hands and used a very narrow neck (Custom made by Paul Bigsby). The neck was eventually copied by Leo Fender and used in the Stratocaster.

I did this long ago and early on in my playing with a neck that was way too sharp in that area (a cheap Strat copy) and it worked fine. And the neck was a bolt-on, so it was replaceable. As my playing style has improved, it seems like less of an issue. It's unlikely that I'm going to hack at the Martin D35.

Try it on an inexpensive guitar first. It's easy enough. I would suggest using either sandpaper (as suggested earlier) or a VERY sharp carving knife. And you don't need much relief - that photo seems excessive - all you need to do is to break the edge and remove < 1/16 inch.

Rick

ukejon · #10 06-02-2014, 04:32 AM

Buy a short-scale cutaway and capo at the second fret. Works beautifully.

srick · #11 06-02-2014, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukejon

Buy a short-scale cutaway and capo at the second fret. Works beautifully.

Good suggestion!

Doubleneck · #12 06-02-2014, 04:54 AM

I just used fine sandpaper to sand the sharp edge of the area between the nut and the first fret which on one of my guitars seemed to sharp for a comfortable thumb grab. The above seems a little extreme. Just round off enough to make it comfortable. Foe me it was very little wood, and a easy fix.

nobo · #13 06-02-2014, 05:33 AM

I know the awesomely talented London (UK) based luthier David Anthony Reid has been doing similar fingerboard scalloping on this guitars for a while:

More pics at http://www.darluthier.com/photos-of-...stic-Guitars_0

I don't have a problem with thumb over the neck playing, but I'd think it would help with that if you do - but it may not be enough to make the difference, depending on how much of a problem it is/how far out you are. It can be done to an existing guitar, though - as others have pointed out - it's a fairly extreme thing to do!

Ideally you'd try another guitar first (ideally with a similar neck to yours) to see if it does make the difference required. Else first try a new nut with the low string close to the edge, or a guitar with a narrower nut width (what's the width on your current guitar), or the other suggestions on this thread, to see if that helps.

Guitar1083 · #14 06-02-2014, 05:35 AM

Look at number 4 that's what takamine does maybe try there guitars

srick · #15 06-02-2014, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guitar1083

Look at number 4 that's what takamine does maybe try there guitars

I have a Warmoth replacement neck for electrics that they refer to as the "asymmetric EVH Wolfgang" neck (Eddie Van Halen) pattern (#6 in the diagram). It helps relieve cramping in the palm that occurs with a beefy neck, but does not help the thumb wrap issue. For that, the edge still needs to be broken.

But trying different guitars and different necks is definitely a route to travel. The ultimate guitar would be the Martin D28 "Merle Travis" model, since that is made to his design. BTW, op should look at TE's guitars - they are primarily short scale (Matons I think).