The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Acoustic Amplification

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 12-09-2013, 01:03 PM
kendallhadden's Avatar
kendallhadden kendallhadden is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Swainsboro, GA
Posts: 1,357
Default Anthem (full) and K&K PWM

I was talking to a player/builder friend of mine who says that he takes the undersaddle out of the Anthem and wires in a K&K PWM in it's place. He says that is is the best sounding pickup he has ever used from stage. Has anyone else ever tried this?
kwh
__________________
Current
2021 Boucher SG21-VK
2017 Caleb Smith Cruiser Mah/Adi
2010 Taylor DN3
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-20-2014, 03:42 PM
rschultz rschultz is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 1,058
Default

Well that's interesting. I've been thinking of doing a FULL Anthem + K&K… but maybe I'll try that first (without element).
__________________
'10 Wechter 5712c - Fishman Rare Earth
'13 Jaffrey #26 - Malaysian Blackwood! - K&K + Rare Earth
'16 Gretsch 6122T Players Edition
‘17 Taylor 714ce
Line6 Stomp, ST-300 Mini
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-20-2014, 08:49 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,830
Default

I was thinking of trying the Lyric + the K&K pure mini but this set up sounds interesting. I actually didn't even know that this was possible!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-21-2014, 08:19 AM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,830
Default

I was thinking about this last night and the only downside I could see is that wiring the K&K to the Anthem and using it instead of the Element would mean that you could not eq the pure mini and tru-mic separately. I like how the output would be mono and that you could use the Anthem's controls but I wonder if it would be harder to eq than a Lyric + K&K set up with a stereo cable?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-21-2014, 08:25 AM
rschultz rschultz is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 1,058
Default

The advantage I see with the Anthem + K&K is that with the element gives more cut/attack for a live situation… yet the K&K could be mixed to taste. I agree that using the K&K instead of the element wouldn't be much better than the Lyric + K&K… just a mono cable, but $100 more expensive.
__________________
'10 Wechter 5712c - Fishman Rare Earth
'13 Jaffrey #26 - Malaysian Blackwood! - K&K + Rare Earth
'16 Gretsch 6122T Players Edition
‘17 Taylor 714ce
Line6 Stomp, ST-300 Mini
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-21-2014, 09:16 AM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,830
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rschultz View Post
The advantage I see with the Anthem + K&K is that with the element gives more cut/attack for a live situation… yet the K&K could be mixed to taste. I agree that using the K&K instead of the element wouldn't be much better than the Lyric + K&K… just a mono cable, but $100 more expensive.
It's definitely an interesting set up. I would just like to hear from anyone who has wired the K&K into the Anthem. I just noticed that the thread was created quite some time ago.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-21-2014, 07:45 PM
Doug Young's Avatar
Doug Young Doug Young is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 8,271
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
I was thinking about this last night and the only downside I could see is that wiring the K&K to the Anthem and using it instead of the Element would mean that you could not eq the pure mini and tru-mic separately. I like how the output would be mono and that you could use the Anthem's controls but I wonder if it would be harder to eq than a Lyric + K&K set up with a stereo cable?
The way to think about the Anthem is to compare it to a stereo system speaker that has a tweeter and woofer. You never worry about EQing those separately, right? The main reason to have separate EQ on a typical mic/pickup dual source system is to roll off some of the bass from the mic (where it tends to be boomy) and possibly roll off the highs from the pickup (where it tends to sound unnatural). The Anthem is doing that for you with the crossover.

You can also think of it like this; The pickup only handles 250Hz and below, while the sound above 250Hz comes from the mic. So add an EQ to your mono signal, and if you EQ, say 100Hz, you're EQing the UST (or K&K or whatever), and not the mic, because the mic's not putting out anything at 100Hz. If you EQ, say 3KHz, you're EQing the mic, and you're not affecting the pickup, because it's not contributing anything at 3Khz.

Now, if you just don't like that the crossover's handling this split for you at 250 and you want to be able to fully tweak everything, then forget the Anthem, and combine your own pieces (like a K&K+Lyric). Then you can do anything you like, but you're basically designing your own system instead of the one Baggs designed for you. Depends on what you want.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-21-2014, 07:58 PM
jseth jseth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Oregon... "Heart of the Valley"...
Posts: 9,725
Default

Wouldn't the K&K just end up handling the frequencies that the Element was? (Remember, the low frequencies are what most people find problematic with the K&K PW Mini...)This, assuming that the crossover network is PART of the Amthem's signal chain, and not something that is readily replaced or bypassed, like if it were an integral part of the unit to begin with?

Seems that would be the case with either Anthem; with the SL version, that crossover is fixed and non-adjustable, but the full Anthem gives you the ability to control both the crossover point and the balance between the Element and the Tru-Mic...

Why in the world someone would spend the $$$ on an Anthem and then basically, "re-invent the wheel", seems a far stretch and counter-productive. If you already had the Anthem and didn't like it, pull it out and sell it! They are still in enough demand that a sale could be accomplished fairly easily, I would think... and if you are just considering going this route, just build your own dual-source and have it the way you want it...

I don't get it...
__________________
"Statistics are one of the most limiting sources of information ever devised by man.
Our job is to do the impossible; we don't need to hear that it can't be done..."
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-21-2014, 08:48 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,830
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jseth View Post
Wouldn't the K&K just end up handling the frequencies that the Element was? (Remember, the low frequencies are what most people find problematic with the K&K PW Mini...)This, assuming that the crossover network is PART of the Amthem's signal chain, and not something that is readily replaced or bypassed, like if it were an integral part of the unit to begin with?

Seems that would be the case with either Anthem; with the SL version, that crossover is fixed and non-adjustable, but the full Anthem gives you the ability to control both the crossover point and the balance between the Element and the Tru-Mic...

Why in the world someone would spend the $$$ on an Anthem and then basically, "re-invent the wheel", seems a far stretch and counter-productive. If you already had the Anthem and didn't like it, pull it out and sell it! They are still in enough demand that a sale could be accomplished fairly easily, I would think... and if you are just considering going this route, just build your own dual-source and have it the way you want it...

I don't get it...
Because that's what we do here at AGF, we re-invent the wheel on occasion! In all seriousness though, I have wanted a K&K + Lyric set up for a while but I just really like the thought of having the mono operation and onboard control module option of the Anthem + the K&K instead of the Element.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-21-2014, 09:23 PM
Doug Young's Avatar
Doug Young Doug Young is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 8,271
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jseth View Post
Wouldn't the K&K just end up handling the frequencies that the Element was? (Remember, the low frequencies are what most people find problematic with the K&K PW Mini...)T
Yes, it would just use the lows of the K&K. But I'd actually claim the opposite. I think the lows and mids on the K&K sound very nice. The highs are where you start to get a bit of piezo edge. The Anthem, on the other hand, uses the Element, a UST that has a very distinctive tone (one that kind of grates on me, but it's a matter of personal taste), and that tone comes thru even just in the lows in the Anthem. So I think tonally, the K&K would be an interesting swap for the Element. Might not work, but I like the basic idea. One of the first things I asked Baggs when I first heard the Anthem was whether they had tried other pickups (like the LB6, or the Ribbon, both of which to my ear are better sounding USTs). There were issues with both of those apparently. But who knows with the K&K?
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-22-2014, 02:24 PM
rschultz rschultz is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 1,058
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jseth View Post

Why in the world someone would spend the $$$ on an Anthem and then basically, "re-invent the wheel", seems a far stretch and counter-productive. If you already had the Anthem and didn't like it, pull it out and sell it! They are still in enough demand that a sale could be accomplished fairly easily, I would think... and if you are just considering going this route, just build your own dual-source and have it the way you want it...

I don't get it...
We should just put a disclaimer at the top of the Amplification (Electrified!!!) thread that reads:

WARNING: we talk about and do crazy thing that sometimes make no sense at all… out of curiosity and just for the FUN of it!
__________________
'10 Wechter 5712c - Fishman Rare Earth
'13 Jaffrey #26 - Malaysian Blackwood! - K&K + Rare Earth
'16 Gretsch 6122T Players Edition
‘17 Taylor 714ce
Line6 Stomp, ST-300 Mini
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-22-2014, 03:17 PM
Br1ck Br1ck is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: San Jose, Ca
Posts: 4,140
Default

I'm thinking of having a guitar wired with a Lyric and some Dazzos into a stereo jack, then take a Red Eye Twin and blend the signal there. Not exactly cheap, but I have a Lyric in one guitar and Dazzos in another and there are things I like about both.

You could blend the Lyric in and out on the fly with the Lyric's volume control.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-22-2014, 08:17 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,830
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Br1ck View Post
I'm thinking of having a guitar wired with a Lyric and some Dazzos into a stereo jack, then take a Red Eye Twin and blend the signal there. Not exactly cheap, but I have a Lyric in one guitar and Dazzos in another and there are things I like about both.

You could blend the Lyric in and out on the fly with the Lyric's volume control.
That's a very interesting combination as well. I have heard that the Dazzo is not as hot as the pure mini so it might actually be a better fit for the Lyric. I would love to know how the Dazzo compares tonally to the K&K. If it has the same type of bass response but also has a little more clarity then I might try the Dazzo instead.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-22-2014, 11:58 PM
Doug Young's Avatar
Doug Young Doug Young is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 8,271
Default

You can hear dazzo and k&k samples on my pickup page. They vary with install, guitar, and version, but the ones ive heard have had more high end than the k&ks
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-24-2014, 07:32 AM
TaylorCocobolo TaylorCocobolo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 216
Default

I've heard the anthem KK combo in person by your player/builder friend. He has been using this combo at least for 2 years on live stage work. The combo is very natural sounding. He uses a Baggs venue DI with it to dial in an incredibly natural acoustic sound. It is very balanced with the low end and high end we aspire to get from all our other pickups. Plenty of volume without feedback too.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Acoustic Amplification

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=