Emerald Chimera - Q's for doubleneck, acousticado and others with hands on experience

[paganskins]

I'm thinking a chimera might be the answer to my mandolin family needs and had a few questions for those with hands on experience of the model.

Guitar is my main thing but I would like to use mandolin family stringing and tunings ie fiths and unison strung but also irish bouzouki type setups using octave stringing - lots of options between octave mandolins, bouzoukis, mandocellos etc and lots of options with stringing and tuning.

The problem is which to choose, or have multiple instruments with multiple pickups systems, and I have limited space and so on.

So I think a base chimera with minimal modifications could work. The standard 25.5 scale is good for mandocello and bouzouki, if a bit long for octave mandolin the stretches would be consistent though so I should get used to it.

What I'm suggesting is:

1. 12 string neck

Standard spec octave tuned but using an extended version of Irish bouzouki GDAD, something like (D)GDAD(G) which covers two commonish cittern tunings DGDAD and GDADG.

I've got a custom string set on order to test this tuning out on my X20 12 string. With the same strings I should also be able to get fifths with a G on top CGDAEG which would be mandocello and octave mandolin octave strung, and a fourths and fifths cittern type of tuning of DGDGDG.

This would be on the normal 1.8 nut width, standard string spacing etc and lighter strings consistent with 10s on a normal 12 string.

It would give the option to use normal guitar tuning of EADGBE with a restring making the instrument more versatile and future (ie resale!) proof.

2. The Second Neck

The other neck would also be 12 string width but unison strung with 5 courses CGDAE, mandocello and octave mandolin. These would be heavier guage, mandocellos have a 70 on the bottom!

A standard 4 course mandocello nut is 1.5 so 1.8 for 5 courses seems reasonable. Again 25.5 scale which is good for mandocello and a bit long for octave mandolin but doable.

In an ideal world fan fretting would be the way forward but as a secondary instrument the price needs to be kept down. So no full weave or any other upgrades, except the stealth tuners which brings me onto my ...

Questions:

• stealth tuners, worth the extra to keep the neck weight down? That's 22 machine heads and it would be trussrodded
• which way would you configure the necks? The manndocello type neck would be more flatpicking and would need good hand position and precision playing to deal with the low C course. The bouzouki/cittern type neck would be more strumming.
• Can the body handle lowered tones down to C? I know there is baritone one out there somewhere, was the low B OK?
• Electronics? lyric seems the obvious choice hopefully without any extra sources a la doubleneck's lyric/mag system

Thanks in advance for your thoughts, and reading through all this*

*useful to see it written down to make sure it makes sense to me.

[Doubleneck]

Wow! My first suggestion is to fire an email to Alistair, as most of these questions are beyond my pay grade. And have you thought of using Emeralds new Mando-Guitar platform? I found it just so cool.

That said:
I would think two 12 string necks (one with 10 strings) with truss rods will tend to be neck heavy, I would use the lightest tuning machines possible.

Neck positions: When playing the doubleneck you tend to reposition your body slightly to make each neck work pretty normally. That said precise picking may be better on the top in some situations, struming on the bottom, thats where I would put them?

I tuned my doubleneck with light gauge strings to a low C with no issues and it sound pretty good. I could not do a low B with light gauge strings, started to rattle. Probably need heavier guages to do that. Remember that the Doubleneck is a thin guitar 3.5 inches not sure the best platform for going way down? I have often described the bass of the doubleneck as similar to a OM guitar, piano like balance.

Lyric is your simplest answer to electronics, I think cause both necks come out balanced to a single plug. The B Band worked well but you had two sources that had to be balanced outside the guitar. Alistair and I had some discussions as to whether I would need to switch off between necks. While that can be an advantage, I found in practice having both necks on all the time works well for me and is much simpler. Again the Lyric does this.

Again Alistair is the king of customizing so let him have at it. He will tell you what he thinks would be best and he actually knows what he is talking about.

[paganskins]

Thanks doubleneck, you've confirmed my suspicions on the machine heads and the lyric. I actually have a lyric waiting to install in a 6 string so I can test that using lower tunings.

Originally Posted by Doubleneck

Wow! My first suggestion is to fire an email to Alistair, as most of these questions are beyond my pay grade. And have you thought of using Emeralds new Mando-Guitar platform? I found it just so cool.

I would do but firstly I don't want to distract him from the fan fret X20 I've ordered and secondly I'll only end up ordering this behemoth if I do!

Yes the mando guitar sounds good just too short to cope with the tunings I want to use, it did prompt my thinking about CF for a double coursed instrument.

Originally Posted by Doubleneck

Neck positions: When playing the doubleneck you tend to reposition your body slightly to make each neck work pretty normally. That said precise picking may be better on the top in some situations, struming on the bottom, thats where I would put them?

That was my inclination so good to hear

Originally Posted by Doubleneck

Remember that the Doubleneck is a thin guitar 3.5 inches not sure the best platform for going way down? I have often described the bass of the doubleneck as similar to a OM guitar, piano like balance.

That (piano like balance) may not be a bad thing, I'm asking it to cover a wider frequency range. Good mandocellos tend to be described as growling in the same way dreads are said to boom, not sure how that relates to frequency response but you don't tend to see large or very deep bodied mandolin type things.

A lot of these things are carved topped like an archtop which would suggest mid range and quick attack.

Originally Posted by Doubleneck

Again Alistair is the king of customizing so let him have at it. He will tell you what he thinks would be best and he actually knows what he is talking about.

Yeah I'll hold off for now, might get expensive otherwise!

There is some precedent to this, a double 6 and 4 course





Not to mention all the manson creations for Led Zep and the like.

[Acousticado]

Hi ps. Unfortunately, I can't offer you any more insight than Steve already has, especially since I don't try altered tunings. As a player, I'm just a straight-ahead hack. All I can say is that for a double neck, the guitar is incredibly light weight, thin at only 3.5", and well-balanced with the lightweight, low-profile stealth tuners. I believe Steve uses a 'neck-up' device, but I don't feel the need at all. Given that the upgraded design now includes solid necks and truss rods, it will be interesting to read reports by owners of this new configuration to know of any changes in weight, balance and tone.

[Doubleneck]

I love the pictures you posted and can see why the doubleneck should work for what you are trying to achieve. I really don't like straps any more, I like to sit down when I play and I use a "Neckup" on most of my guitars. I think sitting down lets me shift my positions easily for positioning between necks. The "Neckup" to is awesome for this guitar and you have to have gloss sides to use it. Somthing to consider maybe?

[unknownguitaris]

Agree get ahold of Alistair. IMO go with Emerald and look nowhere else! I just got a 6 / 12, arrived on Wednesday (for those of you who recall / have wondered the status of my order)... Spent 5 hours non stop playing on Thursday eve until I started to fall asleep.

Anyway, you could go the wood route, there are lots of exotic varieties out there, many of which are very stunning, and playable. If you have a particular application that would benefit from CF and are considering it... go with the material and alleviate yourself care and concern on the wood / glue variety.

Tuners, I ditched the idea of the stealth tuners. Saw them in person, although a definite "cool factor" and lighter, they look odd and I'm not certain the string tension of the .70 would work??? I went with the Gotoh 510s in cosmo black. Gotoh web site mentions limits on the stealth as well.

Agree, neck arrangement, the most articulate playing on top. Please let us know what you decide...

[Doubleneck]

Originally Posted by unknownguitaris

Agree get ahold of Alistair. IMO go with Emerald and look nowhere else! I just got a 6 / 12, arrived on Wednesday (for those of you who recall / have wondered the status of my order)... Spent 5 hours non stop playing on Thursday eve until I started to fall asleep.

Anyway, you could go the wood route, there are lots of exotic varieties out there, many of which are very stunning, and playable. If you have a particular application that would benefit from CF and are considering it... go with the material and alleviate yourself care and concern on the wood / glue variety.

Tuners, I ditched the idea of the stealth tuners. Saw them in person, although a definite "cool factor" and lighter, they look odd and I'm not certain the string tension of the .70 would work??? I went with the Gotoh 510s in cosmo black. Gotoh web site mentions limits on the stealth as well.

Agree, neck arrangement, the most articulate playing on top. Please let us know what you decide...

Would love review and pics of Doubleneck when you have a chance!

[paganskins]

Thanks everyone for the further feedback.

Originally Posted by unknownguitaris

Agree get ahold of Alistair. IMO go with Emerald and look nowhere else! I just got a 6 / 12, arrived on Wednesday (for those of you who recall / have wondered the status of my order)... Spent 5 hours non stop playing on Thursday eve until I started to fall asleep.

Anyway, you could go the wood route, there are lots of exotic varieties out there, many of which are very stunning, and playable. If you have a particular application that would benefit from CF and are considering it... go with the material and alleviate yourself care and concern on the wood / glue variety.

Tuners, I ditched the idea of the stealth tuners. Saw them in person, although a definite "cool factor" and lighter, they look odd and I'm not certain the string tension of the .70 would work??? I went with the Gotoh 510s in cosmo black. Gotoh web site mentions limits on the stealth as well.

Agree, neck arrangement, the most articulate playing on top. Please let us know what you decide...

It could be done in wood but I suspect the cost would be prohibitive.

According to d'addario the 074 is at 33.7lbs tuned to C, can't see what scale length that's over however. Gotoh says the stealth tuner is good up to 44lbs.

Actually the D of a mandocello set is the highest tension wise at 39.5lbs though to be on the safe side I'd probably take go a bit lighter on that.

I find the neck on my X20 12 string drops with the gotoh 510s so I think the stealths would probably be key to making such a thing balance. I make it a difference of 462g between 22 x 510s v's 22 x stealth which is just over a pound so considerable.

The stealths having such a small footprint could be replaced I suppose without leaving any visible screw holes.

[Doubleneck]

"I find the neck on my X20 12 string drops with the gotoh 510s"

Do you have a truss rod in your X20? Just wonder if tuning keys will make that much difference given two solid necks? Be interested in Unknownguitaris report on his Doubleneck with regular Gotoh tuners. I really liked the look of the black Gotohs on the Guitar Mando. It was neck heavy but had a solid neck, I was just going to live with it.

[paganskins]

Originally Posted by Doubleneck

"I find the neck on my X20 12 string drops with the gotoh 510s"

Do you have a truss rod in your X20? Just wonder if tuning keys will make that much difference given two solid necks? Be interested in Unknownguitaris report on his Doubleneck with regular Gotoh tuners. I really liked the look of the black Gotohs on the Guitar Mando. It was neck heavy but had a solid neck, I was just going to live with it.

Yes, mine's post truss rods being rolled out

[ac]

A note on the Gotoh 510s: I have these and they came with great looking, solid metal buttons. However, the buttons alone are actually very heavy. I changed the buttons to ebony wood and saved over an ounce just with the button switch. The feel was noticeably different.

High quality plastic buttons also still look great and might save even more weight. Just something to consider.

Of course, the stealth are the lightest overall--but I wanted locking tuners which are not an option with stealth.