Oxidized Frets on a Rainsong Shorty SG-FLE?

normmoy · #1 08-29-2013, 10:54 PM

I took out my Rainsong Shorty forum-inspired limited today out for band practice after not playing it for a while and noticed that most of the frets have oxidized. I'm wondering how this could happen when I ALWAYS keep the Shorty in its TKL case when not playing. Humidity is consistently between 45-60% humidity at my house in the San Francisco Bay Area.

Also, I haven't changed the Elixir strings for a while. Could that be the cause?

What's the best way to clean the oxidized frets?

Finger Stylish · #2 08-30-2013, 03:10 AM

Next time you have the strings off. put painters tape on the fret-board leaving the frets exposed. Then clean the frets with extra fine steel wool. Then clean with a Jewelry cleaner.
Remember to wash your hands before you play. Most string life and fret clouding are caused by the oils and grime on your own hands.
After you play, wipe that neck and strings. Run a clean cloth between the frets and strings as well. That also cleans off that residue on the backs of the strings that you can't see or think about.

Also remember to brush your teeth after every meal. Shower every day.
Never wear socks more than 1 day before washing.

Oh sorry; got off track a little.

Acousticado · #3 08-30-2013, 10:28 AM

Does the RS Shorty come with stainless steel or nickel frets? If they're oxidizing, I assume they're nickel, but I guess I'm surprised that a CF company would use nickel. Perhaps more do than I thought. Both my CF guitars have ss frets.

mchalebk · #4 08-30-2013, 10:46 AM

Rainsong does not use stainless steel frets. I believe CA, Emerald and Blackbird all do.

Acousticado · #5 08-30-2013, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mchalebk

Rainsong does not use stainless steel frets. I believe CA, Emerald and Blackbird all do.

Hmmm, as CF guitars embrace cutting-edge technology, I really am surprised that RS isn't using ss frets. I much prefer them over nickel.

Perhaps some RS models sound very good, but with this fret question, there are now 4 things I don't care for about RSs…the other 3 being...the body shapes of their offerings compared to others, the incorporated shark icon in most models, and the gawdy abalone colors they use. No offence to RS lovers…I realize it's jmo.

mchalebk · #6 08-30-2013, 11:27 AM

This is a quote from Ashvin Coomar in an old (2011) thread at the MacNichol.com forum:

Quote:

RainSong does not offer stainless steel frets as an option. I wanted to take a little time to explain our logic behind the use of traditional nickel silver frets.

Introducing Carbon acoustic guitars has been an uphill battle and continues to be one. Although it may appear that RainSong has made major inroads in this industry, the reality is that we are a very small niche player trying to succeed in a very traditional market (Taylor guitars makes more instruments in a week than we make in a year).

While you folks on the Carbon Forum are very forward thinking and receptive to innovations and change, that cannot be said of the wider guitar market. Most people do not like change ... or rather, adapt to change at a very slow pace. The main difference between RainSongs and other wooden instruments is obviously the Carbon. In order to educate people, we like to keep the focus on the Carbon, and try not to hit them with multiple changes - each requiring more education. At this time, for a Martin player to appreciate the value of a RainSong, they would need to understand the benefits of Carbon over wood.

Now imagine if we made RainSongs with unique (non-traditional) shapes, with unique electronics (like the Mi-Si active pickups that do not need batteries), stainless steel frets, colored strings, locking tuners, LED lights on the fretboard ... etc. etc.. Appealing to that Martin player becomes exponentially more difficult. "So you want me to buy the RainSong because it is made of a different material AND it has a unique shape AND it has unique pickups AND .... (you get my point!). You also run the risk of "I will not buy the RainSong because I do not like those tuners or those strings ...".

At RainSong, we have chosen to keep the focus on the benefits of the Carbon material. We try to keep other attributes -- such as shapes of the instruments, scale lengths, and accessories -- well within the "comfort zone" of the traditional guitar player. This is the reason we use "known" brands of cases (TKL), electronics (Fishman), strings (Elixir), tuners (Gotoh) etc.. This is also the reason we use Nickel Silver frets. Moreover, anyone that wants stainless steel frets can have them installed on their RainSong by their local guitar tech.

While we need to continually improve our products and innovate, we also have to be pragmatic about building a successful business.

I hope I have been able to explain myself clearly.

And yes ... I will continue to evaluate using stainless steel frets in the future

Acousticado · #7 08-30-2013, 11:33 AM

CF guitars are known to be highly durable and mostly impervious to the elements. Nickel silver frets pit, etc., like they have on my Taylor and other nickel fretted guitars. The OP has pointed out that the nickel silver frets on RSs can oxidize. Therefore, this is a weak point on an otherwise technologically advanced instrument that should be addressed, as many CF competitors have already done. Again, all jmo.

seamusknives · #8 08-30-2013, 02:50 PM

Sorry, Ashvin, but I'm not on-board with the logic. If anything, the nickel silver frets were a deterent for me when purchasing my first CF guitar. The primary point for most of us going in the CF direction is to cheat the wordly elements that want to impair if not ruin our instruments. If in doubt, why don't you take an on-line poll and find out what buyers want regarding frey material. That being said, my RainSong's a great guitar despite the NS frets.

Doubleneck · #9 08-30-2013, 07:28 PM

That is an interesting read from Ashvin Coomar, I would challenge his basic assumption. The Martin Guitar player is not Rainsongs target market, it never will be. Rainsongs market are guitar players that like higher tech and see its value. The more technolgy you can add to appeal to this group the more market share. But easy for me to say I don't run a company.

AZLiberty · #10 08-30-2013, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doubleneck

That is an interesting read from Ashvin Coomar, I would challenge his basic assumption. The Martin Guitar player is not Rainsongs target market, it never will be. .

Ahem...

Some of us do happen to have both Martins and Rainsongs you know.

Martin D-35 and one of Ted's custom AGF shorties.

LionEyes · #11 08-30-2013, 10:27 PM

If you live near the ocean, the salt in the air from the ocean could be the culprit, also if you have well water with high levels of sulfur or lime , that could do it to, as well as rapid changes in temps.

Captain Jim · #12 08-30-2013, 10:31 PM

Or, Taylors and a Rainsong Shorty. Stainless steel frets wouldn't be a turn-off for this player.

Captain Jim

mchalebk · #13 08-31-2013, 08:59 AM

Keep in mind that that post by Ashvin is over two years old, so his opinion might be different now (though I kind of doubt it). I just thought it important to put it out there, because he does make some good points.

I do think it's important for CF manufacturers to try to do things to sell CF guitars to someone who doesn't own one. That group comprises the largest potential customer base. Rainsong has the most conservative designs of the CF manufacturers and keeping things the same as wood guitars (when possible) might actually make it easier for someone who owns a Martin or a Taylor to consider buying one.

And, yes, I think their market is the Martin and Taylor owners. Face it, those are probably the two biggest names in acoustic guitars right now. How many Martin and Taylor owners are concerned about exposing their nice wood guitars to harsh environmental conditions? Who doesn't want a guitar they don't have to worry about? If Rainsong only marketed toward people who were already sold on the viability of CF guitars, their potential market would be very small. On the other hand, if they target the Martin and Taylor (and all other wood guitars) market, the potential is unlimited.

Captain Jim · #14 08-31-2013, 09:25 AM

I have 3 Taylors. The idea of a carbon fiber guitar for it's ability to handle changes in humidity and temp is what intrigued me. The fact that the Shorty is very close to a Taylor 812 in size and feel, drew me in. I looked at the other options, but didn't care for some of the body shapes. I don't need a travel guitar to be a small guitar (I've been through the backpacker guitars and they just don't do it for me)... but, it should be comfortable and sound great. The Shorty does that in spades. Making it even more "maintenance free" with SS frets would be a plus.

The Taylor GSmini is a great seller for the brand; a smaller guitar with a big sound. Plenty of owners buy that to travel with, knowing that the smaller investment equates to less of a loss as a travel guitar. CF is a natural for that market.

Jim

normmoy · #15 09-01-2013, 03:58 PM

I just want to say thanks to AGF for the advice on this issue and inadvertently sparking an intense discussion on the use of nickel vs. stainless steel frets on carbon fiber guitars.

I bought some Grade #0000 Super-Fine Steel Wool and 3M Low-Adhesive Painter's Tape and it worked like a charm.

The first picture shows the first seven nickel frets cleaned and the rest still oxidized. The second picture is a close-up.