locking tuners on high-end acsoutic

[richard_2277]

greetings all

this week, i have a new guitar being shipped to me (a Rainsong Jumbo JM1100, all graphite).

the chrome tuners are really boring so i am replacing them with Gold. i will continue to use factory-chosen Gotohs (dropping right in).

while i am swapping chrome for gold, i reasoned to upgrade to a higher ratio. the standard models are 18.1 ratio. i decided to use the new 21.1 Delta tuners. but now, i am faced with a last fork in the road -

for a few MORE bucks, i can order these as lock-versions (sperzel-style).

for my playing agenda, i'd like to take every precaution to avoid 'string-slippage and also, have precise ratio control'. because...

despite the guitar i use, i am always cursed with intonation/tuning issues. maybe this is because i often change tunings (back & forth). i also use MED/HVY gauge strings. lastly, some of my chord-playing happens to be high on the neck, while still using a few lower-octave open strings. and sometimes, i travel to extreme weather changes (hot/humid to cold/dry). all of this gives me intonation and micro-tuning issues. with my beast of a Guild F50 wooden-jumbo, i must still go to the guitar-tech several times a year for routine neck adjustments. it's a curse, i tell you (ha ha)!

1) do these locking tuners wear out after cranking those rear knobs too much?
2) does the extra weight on the head-stock cause any tone issues?
3) can winding-slack on a standard tuner actually be better for a string install)?
4) and lastly...would i be pissing money away here?

[Claytone]

Congrats on the New Guitar in your life Richard...Sounds like you have a winner on the way!!! I think the gold will look cool and if you can get them locking...Awesome!!!
As for "whizzing away your money", I think that since your guitar will last past our lifetimes, then it will be worth it...maybe your great,great,great Grandkids will honor you with a statue?

[richard_2277]

thanks Claytone. you are right.

can anyone else comment? most people reading here will quickly conclude (in their minds) that locking tuners are redundant on an acoustic. but, on forums, i have indeed seen a few posts of guys who 'think & play' like me. i sure would appreciate any comments here.

i am literally on the fence here, waiting to special order Gold MGT510 Gotohs. Strangely, despite that these are a popular promo item for Gotoh, i cannot find a US dealer who stocks. All-parts and Doomo all quote 4-6 week wait.

comments? bump, bump!

[mchalebk]

I don't have a lot of experience with locking tuners. The only guitar I've got them on is my 8-string acoustic bass (custom Emerald cf), and that's a "special" animal. I'm not particularly fond of them, but that's probably just personal preference.

If strung properly, I don't think standard (non-locking) tuners should have any slippage. You're probably aware of most (if not all) of these, but I'll throw 'em out there anyway. Here are a few things that ought to help with tuning stability and intonation:

1. Ensure adequate number of wraps around the post (probably at least 3 for plain strings, at least 2 for wound).
2. Always tune from below the desired pitch. If string is sharp, detune it so it's noticeably flat, then tune up to pitch. Otherwise, there might be some tension (between post and nut) that can release, causing the string to go flat.
3. Don't trust the tuning if you're using a standard electronic tuner. Tuning a guitar involves a series of compromises. Standard tuners don't make very good compromises. If nothing else, the low E string will invariably be sharp.

[HeavyDuty]

I'm a big fan of locking tuners in general and immediately put a set of Gotoh 510Zs on my Shorty when I got her. I prefer the Gotoh "Magnum" system without the rear knobs, I've tried both styles on different guitars.

Here's a thread I did about the Shorty tuner conversion: http://macnichol.com/forum-post/4950

[richard_2277]

Originally Posted by HeavyDuty

I'm a big fan of locking tuners in general and immediately put a set of Gotoh 510Zs on my Shorty when I got her. I prefer the Gotoh "Magnum" system without the rear knobs, I've tried both styles on different guitars.

Here's a thread I did about the Shorty tuner conversion: http://macnichol.com/forum-post/4950

yeah, i noticed your thread long ago. thanks.

the only shame is waiting 4-6 weeks for an order.

strange that Gotoh has such a huge name and yet, it is impossible to find stock anywhere but in japan.

i emailed Domo about these new models and he did not even know they existed yet! i had to send him a Gotoh link and now, he still needs to wait for Gotoh to give him prices). huh?

i might just get the non-locking Delta after all (21.1).

i read on a forum how if a player changes back & forth on tunings and uses locks without wrapping at all, the clamped area of the string can still slip and loose it's integrity, thus making a break sooner (without the safety of winding). i am so confused..

i change tunings, back & forth, often. if i had minimal winding and only that one clamped area, it would make me feel like skating on thin ice. maybe after all, it might not be so advantageous to pay & wait for the lock version (other than fast string changes)?

[HeavyDuty]

I've been told that the vast majority of Gotoh's catalog is built to order, so the timeframe sounds about right.

[richard_2277]

no biggie

in the end, i decided to order the standard Delta 21.1 (in stock with Domo, to arrive in 3 days).

take care all!

[HeavyDuty]

You'll like them - the Deltas are incredibly smooth.