Found a Composite Acoustics Dealer in New York!

[MikeB1]

I just started researching CF last week and you guys gave me a great education.

Well today I found a CA dealer in NY (Mandolin Bros.) and had a chance to play a CA-Cargo.

Here are my impressions.

•First impression was visually a beautifully proportioned guitar. The 13.5 in. lower bout was perfect for me. The total length is 35.5 in., so even though it is a 22.75 in. scale, it is 1.5 inches longer than the Emerald X7-OS, which is a 24 in. scale.
•Upon picking it off the wall I immediately perceived the significant weight of this smallish guitar.
•My first time holding a CF guitar so I was impressed with how smoothly all the different parts just seem to flow together. Really put together flawlessly.
•Tuners felt smooth as silk
•I only play finger-style and mostly flesh (something me and Laurence Juber have in common…wish there were more!) but I was impressed with the volume and overall sound.
•When I hit a low E I could feel a thump in my chest like someone was playing an electric bass guitar. WOW, what bass!
•I played some simple Bach minuets and the sound was fine. I found I could get the best out of this guitar when I plucked some jazzy chords and played some bossa style to utilize that wonderful bass.
•The guitar was strung with what seemed to me to be medium gauge. I play a Size 5 Martin terz which is a 21.5 in. scale and only use light gauge strings. So I definitely felt the greater tension.

Overall a great experience and I could definitely be happy with it. Now I have to get to Ted in L.A. to play the X7-OS.

OK, now for the questions for all of you guys with much more experience.

1. Can you string these guitars with light gauge strings?

2. The inside of the guitar seen through the sound hole looks a little rough. Is this what a weave addresses and would smooth out somewhat like the outside?

3. Does “RAW” mean the flat finish? Any thoughts about the high gloss finish?

Thanks again guys!

Mike
_______________________
2011 Martin Size 5 Custom
2012 Baby Taylor

[Doubleneck]

You may have found your guitar, especially if you like the bass. CA just has a really deep distinctive base. Looking in the soundhole you are actually seeing the carbon fiber cloth. Given the way they are made Emeralds will seem neater inside. Not sure that's a big deal. CAs are significantly heavier than Rainsong or Emerald again comes from how they are manufactured. Personally I do not like that extra weight. Gloss paint will sound a little less bright than the raw. Raw is more of a satin showing the weave. A little louder brighter? First impressions are huge, also seems like a lot of finger stylists like the Cargo. I played a gloss recently, only negative I experienced was the weight. Peavey seems to have impeccable build quality. Many seem to go to Mediums with the Cargo? I am sure any string will be fine. If you like the Cargo you might want to try a CA OX. It is compact but full size.

[jonfields45]

The Cargo and X7-OS, as far as I know, come factory equipped with lights. Mediums give both the Cargo and X7-OS a much bigger and fuller voice. For the 22.75" scale Cargo, I think mediums also give the necessary tension to feel right (to me). The 24" X7-OS does not feel floppy with lights. The way CA molds their guitars, the inside (back and side) is not going to look great. Emerald's construction techniques yield the nicest looking guts. RainSong is in the middle. CF Martin marketing long ago taught us that looking inside counts :~). The CA Raw finish, was originally totally raw... It morphed into a flat black finish and a raw (unfinished) top. The CA top is made from a two sided mold and is much neater, inside and out. CA guitars are heavier due to the very thick back and sides (even thick by wood standards). My Cargo and RainSong dreadnought both weigh about 4 lbs. I find the Raw finish attractive enough and would not spend my money on gloss. Having owned both, I like the Cargo's tone better than the X7-OS, but you will find plenty of X7-OS owners who feel differently. Jon

[MikeB1]

Hi Steve,

Thanks again for all of your thoughtful comments. I was so happy to find somebody in NY that carries some CF guitars.

As I am just getting up to spead here, I just saw that you have the double-neck from Emerald.

Is the color burgundy? It looks beautiful.

I am also contacting Dr. Alistair to pursue possiblities of customizing an X7-OS.

As you can see from the smaller guitars I play, I also prefer light.

I had one guitar for 30 years, a Custom Les Paul and I have the bad back and shoulder to prove it!

Mike

_________________
2011 Martin Size 5 Custom
Taylor Baby

[Acousticado]

Mike, if you like the Cargo, perhaps you'd like its full-size big brother the GXi even more. Mine in hi-gloss tobacco burst is for sale (link to AGF ad is in my sig).

[MikeB1]

Originally Posted by Acousticado

Mike, if you like the Cargo, perhaps you'd like its full-size big brother the GXi even more. Mine in hi-gloss tobacco burst is for sale (link to AGF ad is in my sig).

WOW! You have good taste Tom. That is a strikingly beautiful guitar.

I have just started to research CF this week so I am still going to shop some more. In addition, I am looking for a smaller scale.

But thank you for the heads-up and good luck with your next adventure.

Mike

[MikeB1]

The 24" X7-OS does not feel floppy with lights.
The CA Raw finish, was originally totally raw... It morphed into a flat black finish and a raw (unfinished) top. The CA top is made from a two sided mold and is much neater, inside and out.
My Cargo and RainSong dreadnought both weigh about 4 lbs. I find the Raw finish attractive enough and would not spend my money on gloss. Having owned both, I like the Cargo's tone better than the X7-OS, but you will find plenty of X7-OS owners who feel differently. Jon[/QUOTE]

Hi Jon,

Good to hear from you again. I was hoping you would weigh in.

I might be able to get used to the mediums but it's good to know that light strings won't be floppy.

I also appreciate the tip on the finish. I would agree that the satin looks very attractive. I was definitely impressed.

What about the various sunburst finishes? Tom just posted a beautiful tobacco sunburst. Can you still get something like that with the raw/satin finish?

Mike

[Doubleneck]

Mike the double neck is what Emerald calls red but it is a burgundy really. It is really striking. I really think you should play a Emerald X7 OX before you decide because they to me are such different guitars. You may be a Cargo guy, it is like a cult really. I would not fight that if that is the case. Personally I love the larger Emeralds, their sound to me is the perfect compromise between Rainsong bright and CA dark. But I only see that in their larger guitars such as their new X20 OS and my doubleneck. They are light but if you are set on a small body go for it. I played a nylon version of the X20 OS and to me this body style will set the standard. If you want to work directly with Alistair go for it, he is a dream maker that simple. Gave me mine.

[MikeB1]

Originally Posted by Doubleneck

Mike the double neck is what Emerald calls red but it is a burgundy really. It is really striking. I really think you should play a Emerald X7 OX before you decide because they to me are such different guitars. You may be a Cargo guy, it is like a cult really. I would not fight that if that is the case. Personally I love the larger Emeralds, their sound to me is the perfect compromise between Rainsong bright and CA dark. But I only see that in their larger guitars such as their new X20 OS and my doubleneck. They are light but if you are set on a small body go for it. I played a nylon version of the X20 OS and to me this body style will set the standard. If you want to work directly with Alistair go for it, he is a dream maker that simple. Gave me mine.

Hey Steve,

Because of back and shoulder problems, I really have found a wonderful alternative with the parlor size guitars.

Although I liked the Cargo, I think I am leaning towards the X7-OS because I can get some custom options on Emeralds. I'm in total agreement with you about Alistair. I have sent him a few emails and he is the most responsive luthier I've ever met.

I have to admit it is a little scary to buy something before you have played it. I did it with the Martin Size 5 but I pretty much knew what I was getting. Alistair does promote confidence though.

I should be communicating with him next week to see if he can build what I am envisioning.

Thanks again for the feedback.

Mike

[jonfields45]

Hi Mike,

I would assume a sunburst is not possible on the unfinished Raw Cargo top, and the gloss ones are expensive :~(. Emerald is the most accommodating custom shop I know of making any kind of acoustic guitar! It is very important to play the X7-OS first. No 3/4 sized guitar is going to sound like an OM-28 and the compromises need to be judged first hand (I am a fan of the GS Mini's tone, but it is much larger than a typical 3/4 guitar). To me tone would trump custom options, but I'm too cheap to pay for more than the basics :~).

Jon

[jonfields45]

To expand on my last comment... If the GS Mini was my minimum benchmark for tone and volume, I don't think the Cargo or the X7-OS would work for me. The final decision (for me) also includes a more airline compatible package than the over sized for 3/4 GS Mini, robustness to my car trunk in the summer, a durable surface that is not easily scarred, AND tone. If I cared about the interior view, or total weight, the Cargo would be out of the running. Jon

[MikeB1]

Hi Jon,

You raise a very interesting point with regard to the differences between the smaller and larger guitars.

I had not played for many years and when I just recently started again, I became very interested in the history of the guitar. In reading about the early 1800s, I saw the pictures of the parlor guitars and so I decided to get my first Martin, a size 5.

The way the smaller guitar has affected me is that I have turned to playing pieces where I can bring out the best in the terz guitar. I found that some simple Bach minuets and Tarrega were where the guitar could really shine. It also seems fitting to play pieces from the 1700s and 1800s on a “period” instrument like the terz.

So I absolutely am hearing you about accepting the differences between the sizes.

On a more technical point, can you explain why the painted sunburst works on the high gloss and not the flatter finish?

Thanks again!

Mike
______________________
2011 Martin Size 5 Custom
2012 Baby Taylor Hog

[jonfields45]

Hi Mike, The flat finish on the Raw Cargo is actually no finish on the top; you are seeing the "raw" epoxy used to bond the graphite fabric together and to the core (spacer material). CA switched to flat black paint on the back/side because, IMO, they were not able to completely eliminate small air bubbles with the manufacturing process they use for that part of the guitar (usually not hard to find some looking in from the sound hole, though small bubbles on the inside would not impact the exterior finish). The top is a sandwich of two layers of graphite fabric separated by a core/spacer (typically some kind of polyurethane or PVC foam), likely molded from both sides (trivial for a flat part), and unlike the back which is vacuum bagged against a mold. You can buy epoxy paint, so there is no reason not to attempt to use the structural epoxy as a final finish, if it can be made sufficiently attractive. Jon