Short-scale, why only Cargo?

gitardude · #1 12-21-2010, 04:20 PM

OK, I love my CA Cargo, and I suspect one of the reasons is the 22.75" scale length, which is gentle on me when I try to stretch my aging fretting fingers farther than they would like to go.

So, my question is, why aren't there more manufacturers offering wood guitars with sub-24" scale length and 1-3/4" nut width? Is there something about carbon fiber that allows good sound at those dimensions that can't be replicated in wood?

Andromeda · #2 12-21-2010, 04:29 PM

Doesn't Taylor make a short scale with that nut width?

JohnnyDes · #3 12-21-2010, 04:36 PM

The new GS mini is 23 1/2"

gitardude · #4 12-21-2010, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyDes

The new GS mini is 23 1/2"

Sounds perfect except for the 1-11/16" nut width. My stubby digits get a little unmanageable without that extra 1/16".

Andromeda · #5 12-21-2010, 04:56 PM

Looking at my BTO list for Taylor guitars their short scale is 24 7/8." That can be ordered with a 1 3/4" nut width.

gitardude · #6 12-21-2010, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andromeda

Looking at my BTO list for Taylor guitars their short scale is 24 7/8." That can be ordered with a 1 3/4" nut width.

Ah, sub-24"/1-3/4" = Guitar-vana.

Howard Klepper · #7 12-21-2010, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gitardude

So, my question is, why aren't there more manufacturers offering wood guitars with sub-24" scale length and 1-3/4" nut width? Is there something about carbon fiber that allows good sound at those dimensions that can't be replicated in wood?

Manufacturers build to what they perceive as the sweet spot in demand. They aren't convinced that there is enough demand for short scale guitars to make it worth while.

No, other things being equal (design and execution) wood should sound better than carbon/epoxy in that scale; unless you think carbon/epoxy sounds better than wood in general.

I've built as short as 22-1/4.

epaul · #8 12-21-2010, 05:57 PM

You've got your Cargo, so you are in good shape.

And there are several Parlor models by various builders that 24" or so. Larrivee has a nice one that is relatively reasonable, and Collings has one, just to name a couple that are on the shelf.

And, any standard guitar (25.5, or thereabouts) that you capo at the first fret instantly becomes a 24" scale. Put mediums on it, tune it down to Eb, then slap that capo on fret one and leave it there. Voila! You have a dandy short scale guitar and it didn't cost you a penny extra.

.

gitardude · #9 12-21-2010, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howard Klepper

Manufacturers build to what they perceive as the sweet spot in demand. They aren't convinced that there is enough demand for short scale guitars to make it worth while.

No, other things being equal (design and execution) wood should sound better than carbon/epoxy in that scale; unless you think carbon/epoxy sounds better than wood in general.

I've built as short as 22-1/4.

I'd consider a custom guitar, but alas $$ is an issue.

epaul · #10 12-21-2010, 06:04 PM

As the string length is unchanged, the tension will remain about the same as a standard guitar (mediums on a 25.5 tuned down to Eb will be around 165 lbs or so, about the same as lights tuned to pitch).

But, as the scale is shorter, and as your hand will be closer to your body, you will gain all the leverage advantages a short scale, shorter-necked guitar offers. And my limited knowledge about this issue tells me that leverage is everything when it comes to preserving your various body parts. It is un-natural and poorly supported extensions and stretching that does you in.

AZLiberty · #11 12-21-2010, 06:13 PM

Larrivee Parlor is 24". All except the first 100 or so have had a 1 3/4" nut.

gitardude · #12 12-21-2010, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epaul

You've got your Cargo, so you are in good shape.

And there are several Parlor models by various builders that 24" or so. Larrivee has a nice one that is relatively reasonable, and Collings has one, just to name a couple that are on the shelf.

And, any standard guitar (25.5, or thereabouts) that you capo at the first fret instantly becomes a 24" scale. Put mediums on it, tune it down to Eb, then slap that capo on fret one and leave it there. Voila! You have a dandy short scale guitar and it didn't cost you a penny extra.

.

Now there's an intriguing idea. Never thought of that. I'll try it and report back.

tbeltrans · #13 12-21-2010, 06:58 PM

To me, what Howard said about the level of demand for a very short scale is most likely the reason why there generally aren't more guitars with that scale available.

However, if I understand your question as you phrased it, it did not sound as if you were looking for another guitar, but rather just wondering why there weren't more really short scale instruments readily available.

I own three identical Cargos (wine-RT), and to me they are about as simple a guitar as I could hope for - very simply appointed, handles nicely, sounds good, and I don't need to be concerned about cracking and other environmental issues. Just play it and enjoy it and change strings on occasion. It doesn't get much better than that.

Tony

gitardude · #14 12-21-2010, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

To me, what Howard said about the level of demand for a very short scale is most likely the reason why there generally aren't more guitars with that scale available.

However, if I understand your question as you phrased it, it did not sound as if you were looking for another guitar, but rather just wondering why there weren't more really short scale instruments readily available.

I own three identical Cargos (wine-RT), and to me they are about as simple a guitar as I could hope for - very simply appointed, handles nicely, sounds good, and I don't need to be concerned about cracking and other environmental issues. Just play it and enjoy it and change strings on occasion. It doesn't get much better than that.

Tony

I wasn't clear, but I might sell my Martin 00-18V if there were a wood guitar similar to a Cargo. I do appreciate wood, and I'm mainly a couch player.

tbeltrans · #15 12-21-2010, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gitardude

I wasn't clear, but I might sell my Martin 00-18V if there were a wood guitar similar to a Cargo. I do appreciate wood, and I'm mainly a couch player.

OK. Thanks for clarifying that. Along with the various suggestions made thus far, there are a number of builders active in these forums that you may want to contact about getting a really short scale instrument built.

Tony