Does anyone know Don Ross' live rig?/I need help with live sound

[VickRamono]

Hey everyone,

So I saw Don last week and obviously it was awesome. I am just starting to getingto playing out live and I am very dissapointed with my live sound, mostly because of the face I don't control it.
I was looking at Don's gear and it looks like this:

Guitar-> unpowered mixer(with an effect pedal through the effects loop)-> preamp-> house

Does that sound right? Also if it is right could I get a set up like this and power speakers for playing small shows and when I play big shows use my speakers as monitors and use the main output to the house? I'm looking to get a good sounding setup and use my own speakers and I'm really confused with preamps and powered/unpowered mixers. I also heard powered mixers are only usefull live, recording with them sucks so thats why I am interested in unpowered mixers, I would like to use it to play live and record at home.

I'm really new to this live sound stuff. Sorry if I don't make sense, feel free to ask me anything.

P.S. Why do so many people use preamps live? Mixers look like you have so much more control.

[paul84]

I was lucky enough to spend a few days with him last July - he played a very small venue (50 - 70people?). I seem to remember him using a Boss ME-70 (or similar) multi effect pedal. One night his pre-amp went bang and he was asking around anyone who'd got a replacement - I think he was after a fishman (but don't quote me on that). At that venue he went through a Bose house PA.
Sounded great - but I suspect that has more to do with Don than his kit
Paul.

[tadmania]

One way to do it is to take it 'step-by-step and back around to the beginning'.

Start with your guitar and the way you play. You'll come back again and again to this, no matter what you choose to put between you and your listeners.

Choose a preamp that sounds best to you, no matter the equipment that comes after it. Some of these have headphone outputs. Listen to just the preamp and find one you prefer.

If you want effects (compression and reverb can be nice) they come next. There are pedals and boxes of every description, some of which are part of the preamp system.

Amplification. If you are just playing solo guitar, the needs are simple. If you sing (and use condenser mics), play with others, or want a system that is more flexible. Again, some of these come 'bundled' with other elements of the signal chain and some stand apart.

Speaker(s). These come in various qualities, sizes, configurations, weights, and costs. A speaker you use for your main house may double as your monitor in a band or group situation. Some speakers have their own amps, especially these days. Again choose something you like.

For my tastes, I start with the best quality I can afford, and build my system from my guitar on out. I did skip a bit at the end and go from my preamp and mixer to the speaker. The amp I have is destined for ebay. The ones I want are much dinero. I will wait.

[Ryan Alexander]

Besides the obvious benefits of his awesome technique and killer Beneteau guitars (I own 2 of his old ones, lucky me!) his setup is pretty basic. He uses a Mackie 1202 mixer, Boss ME-50 for a couple random effects (wah, distortion, chorus) and his main preamp is the K&K Quantum Blender. His standard pitch guitars typically have a K&K Trinity system (SBTs + internal mic) - his fanfret sunburst baritone has a Baggs I-beam and M1 combo.

Lately, he has been messing with a new instrument called the Frameworks guitar - he runs that through a Fishman Aura. Strange looking, but I've heard him get some pretty killer sounds from it in a live setting.

Here's a photo you'll find interesting that shows the settings on his preamp - click on the pic to make it bigger:

http://www.gobyfish.com/photos/Dan_Miner_photo.JPG

Let me know if you have any really specific questions and I'll relate them to him.

[VickRamono]

Originally Posted by Ryan Alexander

Besides the obvious benefits of his awesome technique and killer Beneteau guitars (I own 2 of his old ones, lucky me!) his setup is pretty basic. He uses a Mackie 1202 mixer, Boss ME-50 for a couple random effects (wah, distortion, chorus) and his main preamp is the K&K Quantum Blender. His standard pitch guitars typically have a K&K Trinity system (SBTs + internal mic) - his fanfret sunburst baritone has a Baggs I-beam and M1 combo.

Lately, he has been messing with a new instrument called the Frameworks guitar - he runs that through a Fishman Aura. Strange looking, but I've heard him get some pretty killer sounds from it in a live setting.

Here's a photo you'll find interesting that shows the settings on his preamp - click on the pic to make it bigger:

http://www.gobyfish.com/photos/Dan_Miner_photo.JPG

Let me know if you have any really specific questions and I'll relate them to him.

Thanks man! There we go, thats his stuff I saw(I also saw the Frameworks too. But I have a real basic qwuestion.

What IS a preamp? And can it power speakers? the reason I ask thoes two questions is because I want have my own speakers but I heard powered mixers are bad for recording and only good for live music, so I was looking at buying an unpowered mixer.

(by the way what comes first on Don's set up? the mixer or the K and K blender)

[fitness1]

Preamps don't power speakers....they can do many things depending on what model/brand you are speaking of. Typically, they offer added equalization, signal boost, impedance matching etc....some even blend two signals together from two different sources in the guitar.

You still need either a separate power amp, or powered mixer to power your passive speakers.

There is no difference between using an output from a powered mixer or a passive mixer for recording in my opinion...that said, in this day and age, unless you are going to go full out on recording gear, you'll probably opt for something like my Tascam DP-01FX that has everything self contained anyway.....I don't use any of my live setup (except for my mics) when I record.

[tadmania]

Nice thing about a preamp, too, is that you can get closer to 'your' sound when you are plugged into someone else's rig. A preamp boosts and conditions your pickup output to make it better for input to amplification systems of every kind.

[VickRamono]

Originally Posted by fitness1

Preamps don't power speakers....they can do many things depending on what model/brand you are speaking of. Typically, they offer added equalization, signal boost, impedance matching etc....some even blend two signals together from two different sources in the guitar.

You still need either a separate power amp, or powered mixer to power your passive speakers.

There is no difference between using an output from a powered mixer or a passive mixer for recording in my opinion...that said, in this day and age, unless you are going to go full out on recording gear, you'll probably opt for something like my Tascam DP-01FX that has everything self contained anyway.....I don't use any of my live setup (except for my mics) when I record.

So if I go with a powered mixer and speakers why would I need a preamp, wouldn't the mixer do everything the preamp would do?

[VickRamono]

Also why does Don use a preamp and a mixer?

[VickRamono]

I was looking at Michael Hedges rig and he used a preamp for every guitar and vocals/flute for a total of 5 preamps and they all went into a powered mixer and speakers. If I wanted total control over my sound and volume I would need to do something like that, right? Would I need to get the preamps though? Couldn't I get something like this and be fine?

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com...age?sku=631030

Every single guitarist I see uses preamps so thats why I'm so confused. there must be something cool about them.

[fitness1]

Originally Posted by VickRamono

So if I go with a powered mixer and speakers why would I need a preamp, wouldn't the mixer do everything the preamp would do?

no, the impedance matching for starters. You run a high impedance guitar cable into the preamp and come out of it with an XLR (low impedance) into the powered mixer, and it makes a HUGE difference. Also, dependant on what electronics you put in your guitar, you'll likely need a little more signal processing than your powered mixer would offer. Of course, it all depends on how picky you are. Currently, I'm using an internal mic from the Baggs Dual Source (I yanked the Element UST) and an external condensor (Audix ADX51) and am getting away without a preamp.....just applying the 15v phantom to the internal mic and still utilizing the internal Dual Source preamp in the system (which allows for soundhole volume control)

But in most instances, using either a preamp, or a simple direct box will greatly enhance your tone....

[VickRamono]

Originally Posted by fitness1

no, the impedance matching for starters. You run a high impedance guitar cable into the preamp and come out of it with an XLR (low impedance) into the powered mixer, and it makes a HUGE difference. Also, dependant on what electronics you put in your guitar, you'll likely need a little more signal processing than your powered mixer would offer. Of course, it all depends on how picky you are. Currently, I'm using an internal mic from the Baggs Dual Source (I yanked the Element UST) and an external condensor (Audix ADX51) and am getting away without a preamp.....just applying the 15v phantom to the internal mic and still utilizing the internal Dual Source preamp in the system (which allows for soundhole volume control)

But in most instances, using either a preamp, or a simple direct box will greatly enhance your tone....

So I understand now! I was wondering after reading this though, is XLR cables better sound quality than instrument cables because of the low independance?

[tadmania]

Not necessarily. The low impedance signal will travel further without as much line loss though.

[VickRamono]

Originally Posted by tadmania

Not necessarily. The low impedance signal will travel further without as much line loss though.

Aaaaaaah! So what about condensor microphones? Would I need a preamp for thoes too, or just my actual guitar output?