Fan Frets?

[D. Churchland]

Being a huge fan of detunings such as DGCFAD, AADGBE and many others, I have happened to discover for the first time fan fret guitars, I was browsing around Matt Mustapick's website and I saw this lovely instrument

http://mustapickguitars.com/db/9/index.php

the multiscale geometry of the instrument is very appealing, visually to me at least, and I've heard much about multiscale instruments and people seem to say that they make a difference on sound. although I still don't quite understand what big a difference it would/could make on sound.

Is it an intonation issue? Is it something about making the strings longer?

Would one of the knowledgable luthiers on here please explain?

[mmmaak]

See how your bass strings are compensated (longer scale) at the saddle? Fan frets sort of extend that concept, but to the entire fretboard all the way to the nut. Here's the string frequency equation:

f = √(TL/m)/2L

Rearranged, that gives

T = 4mLf^2

Progressively increasing the scale length, L towards the bass strings equates to higher tension, T (other factors being equal). This is especially advantageous for dropped tunings since the wound strings might become floppy otherwise. For a "regular" guitar, the common fix would be to use higher-gauge strings, e.g. I use bluegrass EXPs (12 16 25 35 45 56) on my Webber.

EDIT: ooopss....forgot to add that there's probably a noticeable benefit to intonation as well. Since the scale is now longer, the amount the string stretches when fretted is a smaller percentage of its total length, hence the sharpness is reduced. Of course, this is all based more on my understanding of the physics involved rather than any real personal experience. I'm sure someone will set me straight if I'm off-track

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Will Kirk

Being a huge fan of detunings such as DGCFAD, AADGBE and many others, I have happened to discover for the first time fan fret guitars, I was browsing around Matt Mustapick's website and I saw this lovely instrument

http://mustapickguitars.com/db/9/index.php

the multiscale geometry of the instrument is very appealing, visually to me at least, and I've heard much about multiscale instruments and people seem to say that they make a difference on sound. although I still don't quite understand what big a difference it would/could make on sound.

Is it an intonation issue? Is it something about making the strings longer?

Would one of the knowledgable luthiers on here please explain?

Hi Will...
I'm not a knowledgeable luthier, nor do I play one on TV (and I didn't spend last night at a Holiday Inn Express).

I do however own, and play, a fanned fret OM. It was built for me by Michael Bashkin in late 2004-early 2005.





I've had this guitar nearly 4 years now. About the fanned fret part (multi-scale):

• 1st string is 25''
• 6th string is 25.75 inches
• The 'normal scale string' is the 3rd.
• This means the 1st and 2nd strings are short scale and the 5th and 6th measurably longer than normal (4th is near normal).
• The treble notes are sweeter than normal, the bass more articulate.

You can see the differing string lengths in the first picture above.

The result of the multi-scale is the bass strings holds tension when tuned down and do not require heavier strings on the guitar to drop tune, even to CGCGCD. The bass is more articulate than on comparable models of Michael's OMs, and the intonation on the bass strings slightly better. I don't have to be nearly as careful to not over-press bass notes on this guitar when drop tuned as with my Olson or Kronbauer. The guitar has a lot of power...more than Michael's comparable OMs I've played over the past 5 years.

Not being an expert nor mathematician, I've always tied the unique aspects of the guitar to the varied string lengths and world class builder who constructed it.

It is an amazing instrument with a lot of power, resonance, and sustain.

Hope this helps...

[David Hilyard]

Will,

Hopefully, Matt will pop in with his input, but to add a little to what has already been said, a comparison that helps understand the concept is thinking about piano strings. The treble strings of a piano are shorter, as well as being smaller in diameter, than the bass strings, which are larger in diameter. Doing that same thing on a guitar helps the tone of the bass, particularly, and it has more presence and is louder than if you didn't do that. Tunings where you drop the bass down, or where the scale of the guitar is longer, like a baritone (that's my guitar you linked at Matt's site, BTW), are even more affected. The bass does not get muddy but remains well defined with punch, without having to go to heavier gauge strings. I don't think intonation issues are different with fan frets than regular guitars. But, reading about intonation on another forum, there's clearly more to it than I thought.

I like the looks of fan fretted guitars as well.

[ljguitar]

Hi Will...
A couple more things I thought of...

There is no specific formula or one-size-fits-all set of string lengths that describes a multi-scale guitar. It could be a 1/2'' offset or 3'' offset (or more). The perpendicular fret could be anywhere along the neck.

The nut could be the ''start'' point and the scale could fan the entire length of the neck in one direction. Or the saddle could be perpendicular and the frets would angle the other direction.

My guitar has a total offset of .75 inch, divided equally among the frets with the perpendicular fret wire being the 7th or 8th (only one perpendicular point on the entire neck). This resulted in a 'transparent' fingering arrangement with frets fanning away from the 8th fret in differing directions.

You really don't know you are playing a fanned fret neck if you don't look as the offset plays into the hand angle in favorable directions as the hand moves up and down the neck.

I have played fanned frets where fanning was kept more normal for the first few frets (perpendicular fret wire was 5) and then fanned more radically toward the upper end. This resulted in a couple really tight clusters up around the 17th fret - where most people don't try to play chords.

I have never played one that was fanned entirely from the bridge or saddle. I have played full 1 inch offsets too that still played pretty normally.

[Ruble]

Will,

I have two of Matt Mustapick's fan-fretted creations...

This one:


and this one:



I would echo all that has been said here...both of mine have .75" difference and play very naturally and comfortably.

My Baritone goes very easily into BbFBbFBbC with light gauge strings. I would imagine that you could get your A tunings with medium gauge. I also tune it as high as DGCFAD with light gauges. My Aurora goes from standard down to C tunings beautifully...

If you are anywhere near Virginia you are welcome to play my Mustys.

Chris

[justonwo]

You guys that are comfortable with the 0.75" fan on a six string, do you have big hands? I'm really I interested but I do find I have to work harder when switching from 24.75" to 25.5". I don't want to create more work for myself.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by justonwo

You guys that are comfortable with the 0.75" fan on a six string, do you have big hands? I'm really I interested but I do find I have to work harder when switching from 24.75" to 25.5". I don't want to create more work for myself.

Hi juston...
No, I have average hands - slightly short fingers.

Actually, I did create more work for myself, because I play and arrange more difficult pieces on it, but not from the multi-scale.

[David Hilyard]

Originally Posted by justonwo

You guys that are comfortable with the 0.75" fan on a six string, do you have big hands? I'm really I interested but I do find I have to work harder when switching from 24.75" to 25.5". I don't want to create more work for myself.

I think I'd call my hands on the large size. The baritone, with it's long scale, then adding the fan, it can be a stretch. I certainly notice it when going in reverse, back to my regular scale guitars. They seem like a mandolin. Well, not really, but they certainly seem like smaller guitars and they are still the same size, body wise. A fan on a regular scale would probably not be noticeable. But certainly, you should test drive a few before placing an order for one.

I should add that another aspect that makes my baritone more of a stretch is the width of my fingerboard, at 1 7/8". More normal widths wouldn't be so much of a stretch and certainly a 25.5" scale guitar with a 1 3/4" neck even less so. Still, try one on before buying.

[Ruble]

Originally Posted by justonwo

You guys that are comfortable with the 0.75" fan on a six string, do you have big hands? I'm really I interested but I do find I have to work harder when switching from 24.75" to 25.5". I don't want to create more work for myself.

I have very normal sized hands. I do not have any trouble with either of my fan-frets...both of mine are 1.75 nut with 2.25 spacing.

Chris

[justonwo]

Another forum member was kind enough to invite me to his house to play his Mustapick Arena. I have to say, I barely noticed the increased scale length on the bass side, but I did really like the improved bass on the dropped tunings. I'm now seriously considering fan fretting for my Mustapick Arena . . .

[mmmaak]

hmmmm, I wonder if I could play a typical fanned fret with my 8.25" (thumb to pinky) hand span

[David Hilyard]

Originally Posted by mmmaak

hmmmm, I wonder if I could play a typical fanned fret with my 8.25" (thumb to pinky) hand span

I'm sure you'd be fine. Considering the difference in scale length, 1st string to 6th string is .75" typically, saddle to nut, the difference fret to fret is quite small, even in the lower frets.

I measured my span, outstretched fingers, end of thumb to end of pinky (the way you did, I think) and I get 9 1/2". That would speak to why I want a wide fingerboard.