Anyone subscribed to the Tim Pierce masterclass?

[gfsark]

I signed up and enjoyed Tim Pierce’s master class. For a while…maybe six months. He had a series on melodic soloing which caught my attention and I enjoyed.

Each lesson that I used followed this format: First Tim puts on a backing track. Then he solos over it. Then he breaks down the solo into small chunks (5 or 6) with commentary that explains his choices for the improvisation. Each lesson has the sheet music and tabs, and there is the backing track provided.

As an internet guru, I think he’s one of the best. I learned a lot. But ultimately decided to move onto something else. And now I’ve signed up and participated with at least a half dozen on-line teachers.

I now ask myself, if these lessons are so great, why am I not learning more and faster? Why am I not getting it? What is missing? Is it the teacher, the curriculum, or the medium? or something else?

Let’s start with the ‘something else’: music is hard to master. It’s complicated. There are many really brilliant on-line teachers and I love learning from them. Getting me to play like them is…well, that’s not going to happen. Lest you think I’m being too hard on myself, consider: Brandt teaches shredding. He posted a complicated picking pattern played at an impossible 400 bpm, every note properly alternately-picked, no buzzes, no legatos, no taps and no cheating. Wow.

Tim Price is not a shredder, but boy does he have an incredible melodic sense and mastery of the instrument and it’s fun to learn from him. Also frustrating because he cannot really teach me to hear melodic melodies in my head. That’s going to be self-taught and the work of years.

Now I pay for private lessons from a master, and that’s the high-cost alternative to the internet folks. But still I constantly use YouTube lessons for additional stimulation, handy hints, and ideas to round out what I’m going over in private. The best of both worlds.

[Brent Hutto]

Originally Posted by gfsark

Now I pay for private lessons from a master, and that’s the high-cost alternative to the internet folks. But still I constantly use YouTube lessons for additional stimulation, handy hints, and ideas to round out what I’m going over in private. The best of both worlds.

I take private lessons and often have to spread them out two weeks (occasionally more) apart because it takes me that long just to try and implement most of what we cover in an hour lesson.

So I don't find myself wanting or needing any additional brain stimulation in between!

[AX17609]

Originally Posted by AX17609

Any recent updates on this topic. Has anyone stuck with the Tim Pierce Masterclass. One criticism is that it's not very well organized. Has anyone found this to be a rate-limiting problem?

I'll respond to my own question.

I signed up for a 14-day free trial of the Masterclass. During that two-week period, I spent more time with Tim Pierce than I did with anyone else in the world. I logged a sizable number of hours with both the program and his volume of publicly available videos on YouTube. I will continue with the program in spite of its shortcomings.

The Masterclass has numerous shortcomings to the point that it almost seems like bad sportsmanship to point them all out. It's not even listed on GuitarWorld's recent list of best online guitar instructional sites. Tim is a patient explainer but not a professional educator. His site wasn't structured to take students in a stepwise fashion from Point A to Point Z. It was designed to share his knowledge and experience. It's lack of functional organization is troublesome but not deadly.

So, why am I continuing? It's simple. I like Tim. He seems to be a very knowledgeable and approachable guy, and I enjoy spending time with him. I NEVER dread the next lesson. It's more like spending time with a friend. His presentations are informative without being overly didactic. He's not a theory know-it-all, and he's not a show-off. Most of all, he seems to genuinely enjoy playing the guitar. He's always smiling, and he often visibly enjoys whenever he plays a particularly nifty line or stumbles upon a happy accident. I wish I had his attitude. If what I get out of this experience is to absorb some of his unbridled joy, I'll be content.

Often more valuable than the specific instructional elements are the casual comments Tim makes from his perspective as a working studio musician. He plays music for people to listen to, not to impress other guitarists. He demonstrates how an electric guitar is different from an acoustic, so the approach to rhythm is different. He stresses accuracy and string muting. He talks about keeping movements small and efficient. He also notes that since you've got other people in the band, you don't have to hit everything all the time. Be simple; leave space, particularly for the vocalist. He talks about how to dial in an amp and which pick to use for which style of playing. He encourages you to practice with a drum track and how much practice he has to do (answer -- a lot). He talks about listening to the drummer and getting into the "pocket". He talks about when to be a half-step ahead of the downbeat and when to be half-step behind it. And so on, and so on.

I needed this kind of guidance 40 years ago, and I'm grateful to have it now.

[hubcapsc]

I've watched and enjoyed several of Tim Pierce's videos, and also used some of
Guthrie Trapp's videos to learn new stuff...

I stumbled over this today:



I wish I could drop something in Guthrie Trapp's virtual tip jar,
but I don't have venmo or paypal...

-Mike

[AX17609]

I've been a Masterclass member for two months now, and I'm starting to have some problems with this program. Tim appears to be a wonderful person, and he often shares perspective that I probably wouldn't get anywhere else. However, there are issues.

First, the organization is unbelievably poor. It's like trying to follow a math book whose pages have been randomly scattered all over the floor. He tries to portray this a strength by saying that you can choose to work on what you want. But, it's really a weakness because there's no logical flow. He's an "explainer" not a "teacher", and there's a difference. I really wish he'd hire an educational consultant.

Second, many of the episodes, particularly the early ones, are incomplete. They lack either an .mp3 file or .pdf of the performance, or they lack a backing track. Some lack all three.

Third, most of the "Blues" section isn't blues, including the five lessons entitled "Basic Blues Module". They're interesting, but they're not blues.

Fourth, many of the lessons don't demonstrate what they're intended to demonstrate. I can promise you that BB King never played anything like what is demonstrated in the "BB King Inspired Solo". I can say the same thing about the two SRV related solos. On the other hand, he covers Hendrix beautifully. So, I have to credit him with that.

Finally, he doesn't build upon an overall playing philosophy. He sort of states it in various lessons, but he doesn't teach it in a structured manner. I think he learned some things as a youth that he doesn't realize he learned, and he assumes everyone already knows them. I won't go into this in any detail here other than to say that if you don't know triads all over the neck, you won't get very far with this program.

I have learned many, many things from Tim in the two months I've spent with the Masterclass, and I thank him for that. It has already been worth the money. What frustrates me is that the program could be so much more than it is.

[Chickee]

Originally Posted by AX17609

……..I have learned many, many things from Tim in the two months I've spent with the Masterclass, and I thank him for that. It has already been worth the money. What frustrates me is that the program could be so much more than it is.

Have you written him to explain your position? It’s apparent the amount of thought you have given what you feel very strongly to be the shortcomings of his on line classroom.

He reads his email, talks about what he receives all the time. You may be pleasantly surprised, he may even adjust his delivery to be more aligned with what you feel is a competent learning experience.

frank d.

[AX17609]

Originally Posted by Chickee

Have you written him to explain your position? It’s apparent the amount of thought you have given what you feel very strongly to be the shortcomings of his on line classroom.

He reads his email, talks about what he receives all the time. You may be pleasantly surprised, he may even adjust his delivery to be more aligned with what you feel is a competent learning experience.

frank d.

Interestingly, during a Live Stream someone told him that "someone over on the AGF Forum" was "trashing" his Masterclass. I hope that person wasn't referring to me. I'm certainly not trashing the program. As a dedicated subscriber, I just think potential participants should know what they're getting into.

[tammuz7000]

I have had it for the last 2 years. I really like it and Tim. Every question I have ever had he has answered. I even met him and he took time to answer a few questions. His lessons with Carl Verhyn are awesome. Other times he brings his friend in and they are great.

He is a master of how to get a tone. I watch all his free vids too but the masterclass lets you dig in deeper. Plus I got in on it at a special deal.

I also have Truefire all access and that is fantastic but easy to get distracted with so many good lessons..

[AX17609]

[TL;DR alert]

I wanted to take a moment to amend my earlier comments with something a bit more positive and hopefully more helpful. This is not a review or critique of the program. I just wanted to share some characteristics of the Masterclass that potential subscribers might want to know and probably won't learn during a 14-day free trial. At least, I didn't. I think Tim would agree with everything that follows.

Top 10 Tim Pierce Tips

Note -- Tim's 'super power' is improvising melodic solos over changes without venturing into jazz. He's trying to play something pleasing to listen to, not something to show how clever he is. He's also a very tasteful rhythm player. Developing these skills is the point of the Masterclass. If you're the sort of person who has been stuck in pentatonic boxes and power chords, then the Masterclass is a gold mine.

1. Learn triads all over the neck. Note that I said "triads" not "tetrads" or "arpeggios". Visualizing triads is Tim's key shortcut to address the need to land on chord tones while soloing. You cannot get very far in the Masterclass without this fundamental skill. This emphasis distinguishes Tim from jazz-based teachers like Rick Beato and anyone else who received formal training.

2. Tim does not read nor does he ask his students to read standard notation. He provides it, but he doesn't ask you to employ it. All he asks is that you put a chord chart in front of you when you play. Doing so liberates your memory, frees your mind, and encourages you to play over changes.

3. Tim suggests that you not chase vintage guitars. He feels that new guitars are generally better designed and have all the flaws of older models worked out. Modern guitars also stay in tune better. He offers brand recommendations in the Masterclass, but he has no financial interest in those recommendations. His Stratocaster-style guitars are almost always tuned down 1/2 step. I ended up buying one just to keep from having to retune all the time.

4. He favors ultra-low action, medium-jumbo frets, and coated 9-42 gauge strings. His vibrato and 32nd-note legato really depend on this kind of setup, so you need a guitar that can deliver it.

5. He recommends that you do not practice unamplified. Always plug in, because doing so affects how you play. He suggests that you record yourself whenever possible.

6. Tim is known for exceptionally good tone. Part of his formula is to set his amp at the edge of breakup for rhythm, so that the amp is compressing and the guitar is touch-sensitive. This is loud, so students with roommates or neighbors may have trouble duplicating this setup. Personally, I nearly always play with headphones.

7. He uses gain pedals for leads, so students should have one...or more. He is also fond of adding reverb and a little delay late in the signal chain, but doing so is not required. He says that with a properly tuned amp, compression is only needed for single coil pickups set clean.

8. He favors PAF-style humbucker pickups and says that most of the modern clones are excellent. If you favor single coil pickups, use the stacked, noise cancelling version. If using P90s, get a volume pedal to quiet the noise when not playing. He uses two volume pedals at different points in the signal chain rather than a noise gate.

9. Tim's speed comes from his left hand, and he liberally employs hammer-ons and pull-offs rather than fast pick action or tapping. This emphasis on the left hand will affect how you practice scales and legato passages.

10. He recommends that you play along with favorite tunes or backing tracks rather than doing drills. If you have favorite drills, play them over backing tracks to make the drills more musical. He's particularly fond of drum tracks, particularly when practicing rhythm, and he recommends owning an octave pedal for recording bass parts. But backing tracks need not be anywhere near that sophisticated. They can be as simple as a guitar strum.

For potential Masterclass students, I'd like to reinforce the importance of #1 -- being totally fluent in triads. It's one thing to know about them and quite another to play them fluently. I think Tim probably learned triads at a young age and assumes that his students are already fluent, so he doesn't teach them in detail. On the other hand, he teaches modes in great detail and uses them extensively. The aspect about modes that he neglects is the way they form chord families. You really have to understand that in order to understand where his lead choices come from.

The recommendation to record yourself and to create backing tracks means that you need some way of recording your guitar. This is a non-trivial recommendation even at the most basic level. Things that people say are simple tend to come with complexities that have to be ironed out, and recording a guitar is no exception. For example, I still remember the day I was introduced to input/output latency. Setting up such a system is not covered in the Masterclass. Fortunately, there is a lot of guidance available here on AGF as well as a few genuine experts.

Finally, thanks to YouTube copywrite issues, Tim no longer teaches tunes, even when the lesson title suggests he's going to. He teaches improvisation within the domains of blues, rock, R&B and country. If you want to learn a specific tune, you'll need to go elsewhere. His soul is in the great guitarists who emerged in the late 60s (Clapton, Hendrix, Beck, Page, etc.), but his application is contemporary popular music, not classic rock covers or jazz standards.

I have to admit that even though I have played guitar on and off for many decades, I discovered that initially I was not enough of a guitar 'master' to be a Masterclass student. I had to identify my weaknesses and correct them, which was not an easy process. It took me about two months just to figure out what I was missing, and I'm only beginning the process of correcting my deficiencies. As that process moves along, I'm appreciating more and more of Tim's wisdom.

[WSR]

Great review. Thank you for the detailed review; it is very appreciated and VERY helpful.

I am looking for the "perfect" online course to take me to the "next level" and am considering Tim's course. I started playing later in life - I took lessons for 9 of the 11 years since I've started playing - and am looking for something new to get me motivated again and to help me progress as a player. Based on this review/feedback, I believe Tim's Masterclass may be the ticket (at this point).

Thanks again!

[Bob Womack]

Thank you for the detailed analysis, AX17609.

Originally Posted by AX17609

4. He favors ultra-low action, medium-jumbo frets, and coated 9-42 gauge strings. His vibrato and 32nd-note legato really depend on this kind of setup, so you need a guitar that can deliver it.
9. Tim's speed comes from his left hand, and he liberally employs hammer-ons and pull-offs rather than fast pick action or tapping. This emphasis on the left hand will affect how you practice scales and legato passages.

I wonder if he is a lefty playing righty? That is practically a defining characteristic of the well-known lefty-playing righty guitarists I've followed. Being a LPR myself, it was something I discovered very quickly about myself: right-hand precision is tougher for me than it is for my righty friends but my left-hand articulation comes naturally. I, too, run .009s in order to facilitate large bends, compound bends, and micro bends. I eventually took classical guitar lessons and integrated finger plucking into my bag of tricks on electric, which upped my game considerably.

I'm tremendously impressed by Tim. His enthusiasm and joy is contagious and his playing and taste are impeccable. He has taken the gifts given to him and developed skill and artistry that take excellent advantage and, as others have mentioned, produce beautiful, melodic work. I should note that I am an absolute sucker for a beautiful melody, as witnessed by my love for the Russian Romantic and Baroque periods, so that might just influence my affection for his work.

When I discovered Tim's free videos I felt like I had discovered a kindred spirit, or perhaps big brother. His session business model is like a souped-up version of my own - he does that all the time; I interleave a career as a recording engineer/producer/sound designer with that of a session player. He gets a product and immediately has to produce guitar parts to improve it, as do I. His thought processes as he approaches improvised parts to fill out and structure a song are very much like my own. Of course, he is far better and has made far more money doing this than I. However, through it all, I feel like I could sit down with him and jam and improvise and feel good about myself because we are close in approach and because he has such a kind personality.

So, anyway, I enjoy his videos quite a bit. I haven't subscribed, but it isn't because I don't want to.

Bob

[AX17609]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

Thank you for the detailed analysis, AX17609.

I quit the Masterclass. I attacked it hot and heavy for six months, tapered off for another three, and found myself not going there anymore after nine. I tried to be a cheerleader for the site, but I can't do it anymore.

I practiced modes and chords tones until my fingers ached. Every. Freaking. Morning. Hundreds of hours up and down the fretboard, across all positions, around a circle of 5ths. It never turned into music. My improvisations sounded like an AI computer. I practiced his 32nd note legato runs hundreds of times, but could never get them up to speed. He never explained where those things come from, even after I asked him. I copied his improvisations, but they never informed other pieces. They just stood alone as little solos that don't go anywhere.

I also got frustrated with lessons whose titles didn't represent the lesson -- blues that aren't blues; SRV-style lines that SRV would never play; a Clapton lesson with only 8 bars of content; etc. [Interestingly, he just released a package of "30 free lessons" that are nothing but a series of outtakes of solos from tunes never teaches in the main course.]

Ultimately, and I want to stress this -- I grew frustrated with the ridiculously awful organization of the whole site. I never knew where to go next. His promised curriculum never materialized. It's just a random collection of disconnected tips, not organized training.

In "The Laws of Brainjo: The Art & Science of Molding a Musical Mind", author and neuroscientist, Josh Turknett, warns against unstructured material of this type. When learning, our brain is building interconnected networks, and it needs to be provided the right inputs in the right order at the right time. When information is presented randomly, we draw the wrong conclusions and end up creating the wrong kind of network. In this context, the Masterclass is actually deleterious.

Please hear me clearly. Tim is a wonderful person and an inspiration to all. He has many admirers. Hundreds of people show up for his YouTube live streams. I've talked to him on the phone, and he was very nice. I wish he lived next door. I just can't endure his course anymore. I lost faith that his teaching will elevate my playing, and I'm tired of pounding my head against the wall. The Masterclass makes me feel bad about myself. I think it's probably better directed at more advanced players, and I've only been playing for 60 years.

Just to show that I'm not a total loser, I took on Corey Congelio's "Working Class Guitar" site a couple of months ago. His material hits right at my skill level, and it's beautifully organized and presented. Corey gives me the impression that I'm actually making progress. I'll provide more details in another thread.

[WSR]

I appreciate the followup.

Another good option is Robben Ford's Guitar Dojo (https://www.robbenfordguitardojo.com/dojo). It seems to be well organized into Beginner/Intermediate lessons, and Riffs and Technique. Obviously another musician that knows what he is doing . . . to say the lease!

[Glennwillow]

Anyone subscribed to the Tim Pierce masterclass?

I do not subscribe, but I have watched a lot of Tim Pierce videos. He is so ridiculously good! And I like his personality and certainly respect his knowledge.

- Glenn

[AX17609]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

...I like his personality and certainly respect his knowledge.

As do I. I have no problems with Tim Pierce the man, the musician, the myth, the legend. I do have a problem with the Masterclass.

Books have editors for a reason. They mold the author's thoughts into a consumable package. Tim needs the same service applied to the Masterclass.