in a slow used guitar market, Who is buying all of the New Guitars ?

[beninma]

Originally Posted by Mr. Paul

I don't think you've shopped for a car with less than 12K miles lately. The drive it off the lot and lose 50% of value thing simply does not hold true in the real world. Find me a Subaru Outback or Toyota Tacoma with <12K available at 50% of new price and I will fly there right now right now

Haha.. this is very true as an Outback owner, maybe some guitars hold value like an Outback or a Tacoma.

I custom ordered my Outback.. there were used ones on the lot which cost more than my custom order. Cars with 25k miles were stickered at $250-500 less than a brand new car. When you added up the different options and what options were common in the used cars you could easily get a new car in the same trim level for less than some of the used ones which were subtly optioned more expensively.

It might not be true now but back then the Toyota Prius was also a car which it made absolutely 0 sense to buy used. They were selling every car instantly so used ones on the lot had almost 0 markdown compared to brand new ones.

The whole "value drops like a rock" is mostly for expensive cars which have poor average initial quality & long term reliability. Cars that typically get leased.

[Napman41]

I see the so called soft guitar market more a market of sellers with unrealistic pricing expectations. Appropriately and fairly priced guitars sell and they usually sell quickly. Or at least that’s my experience.

[UncleJesse]

Originally Posted by BT55

You can’t get 0% financing on used guitars!

Actually, you can. Paypal credit allows 6 months no interest.

[BoneDigger]

I often buy new guitars. Most of mine (not all) were new when purchased. Every single dent or scratch was of my own doing.

[BT55]

Originally Posted by UncleJesse

Actually, you can. Paypal credit allows 6 months no interest.

You are correct BUT you have to buy on eBay and you get 6 not 36 months 0% financing.

[M Sarad]

Retirement took the wind out of my sails.

Flush with acoustics: Santa Cruz, Merrill, Brondel, Northwood, Kenny Hill, Weissenborn, I took off down the electric path: Tele, Strat, SG, PRS, pedals, amps...

Now it’s time to build a new fence, finish the back deck, and paint the house. New plumbing, electrical,and AC kept me from buying those 1930era Martins.

[beninma]

I seemed to advocate for buying new over used but the hilarious thing about my previous posts is I own 2 guitars and 1 of them I bought used at.. about 50% of the new price, and the guitar was less than a year old when I bought it...

I've owned 4 total guitars and only 1 was used though.

[6L6]

My experience in the San Francisco Bay Area where I live is like Rev Roy's post early in this thread. In short...

I've had excellent results selling high end acoustic guitars on my local CL. I will not ship any instrument and deal in cash only (all of my deals are done at either my local Police Station or my local bank for safety). Cash is king!

I think one reason people buy new is the (in the case of Martin anyway) lifetime warranty guarantee. That doesn't really mean much to me personally (I just bought a new '37 Martin D-28 Authentic with VTS yesterday), but I think it does matter to a lot of folks.

That said, I'm lucky to live in an area (Silicon Valley) where high paying jobs are enjoyed by many. Having disposable income for expensive guitar purchases is not an issue for these folks.

[blindboyjimi]

I’ve bought and sold here at least 50 times. This is THE softest market I’ve seen. There are a ton of super inexpensive single luthier’s guitars that are at excellent prices. Last year I bought 5 guitars and this year I’ve sold 3. Of all the guitars I’ve had, I’ve only used a warranty twice on the same guitar, but that’s one of the very few I bought new. I figure at worst case it’ll need a neck re-set which is $400 or so. If I can get a high end guitar at 50% off, then the warranty cost is already built in. I’ve sent 2 guitars back to their luthier’s for new necks as I loved the tone, but not the neck. I was able to buy at low enough prices to still make it worth while and still much less than a new one and tax free which is 8% here.

I’ve paid dearly for a used Julius Borges guitar which are impossible to find. He’s retired so there will be no more new ones and a Bill Tippin OMT, which are also impossible to find, but Bill agreed to go over the guitar, set it up and polish it so it looks and feels new. To me those were great buys.

I’ve only bought new twice in 10 years for my cherished 000-18 Norman Blake (of which there were only 134 built) and a Waterloo WL-12 that the dealer just made me a great offer and it was such a stand out from the other Waterloo’s which were all great. I got the standard 10% off, no tax and a great deal on a gig bag too. Shout out to San Diego Guitar and Bass.

I don’t need to sell any guitars but I feel I price them fairly and I’m open to hearing offers. I don’t need to buy either, but I check in every day in case a Brondel A-2 or Sexauer OM show up. There was just a gorgeous A-2 for sale and it lasted about 3 days. Well priced, rare guitar = easy to sell. Common guitars @ higher prices are harder to sell. YMMV.

[RagtopGT]

Originally Posted by Rev Roy

What I have often seen are people posting used guitars for sale at ridiculously high prices...typically more than you would pay to get the same guitar new from one of our sponsor. Those are the guitars that sit unsold for a long time...

Agreed.

I'll stick with Martin because I know their models, the dealers, and pricing. I can't speak to the other brands.

I think part of the reason for new outselling used, at least more recently, is that folks are finally getting wise to the deep discounts that dedicated Martin dealers are offering. Why would an informed buyer pay $2200+ for a 2 year old D-18 when he can get the identical guitar brand new with warranty for under $1900?

The deep discount availability isn't some new phenomena where a secret handshake and code words have to be exchanged. I bought my first Martin 15 years ago and a 40% discount was offered right up front.

So many buyers pay MAP that when it comes time to sell their Martin they price it a couple of hundred lower than what they paid, and there the guitar sits.

Chris Martin has said that Martin's biggest competitor is Martin. That may be true in the vintage market, but in these soft market days of the more modern Martins I suspect the competition is other manufacturers and in the case of higher end instruments, boutique builders.

[ManyMartinMan]

Originally Posted by Rev Roy

...What I have often seen are people posting used guitars for sale at ridiculously high prices...typically more than you would pay to get the same guitar new from one of our sponsors. ....

I price my used guitars @ 75-80% of street price. I don't have any guitars for sale and have never had one for sale over 30 days. The vast majority of the U.S., let alone the world, don't do business with our sponsors. So, if a guitar has an MSRP of $2,000 (arbitrary price), street price would be $1,500. Sponsor price would be around $1,200. If I sold that guitar used I would price it in mint/near mint condition for $1,200. Historically I would sell that in less than a week for sponsor new price or slightly less.

Remember, only an extremely small number of buyers buy, or expect to buy, below advertised street prices. Generally mine sell on Reverb or locally (Craigslist or word-of-mouth). There's no shortage of guitar buyers in L.A. I had a new Authentic for 2 years and sold it for about $20 more than I bought it for from a sponsor. So, for those selling at 80% of sponsor new price, you're leaving money in someone else's pocket.

Added: I have even purchased guitars being sold at "gotta go" pricing knowing I could resell it quickly locally for $500-$1,000 more than I paid. There's nothing wrong with giving a seller their asking price and then making money on it afterwards. I've actually bought guitars I knew were being sold too far below their "value" to get them off the market at a crazy price that could pull the value of mine down.

[M Sarad]

My Santa Cruz, Merrill, and Brondel are worth more than I paid for them new. The Northwood seems to have taken a beating.

[Rev Roy]

Years ago I was told by one of our most-respected sponsors that you can typically expect to buy a highend new guitar for 60% of MSRP, sell it later in excellent shape for 50% of MSRP or trade it in excellent shape for 40% of MSRP. That’s pretty much how it’s worked out for me in the five years I’ve been buying/selling/trading guitars. So for me personally the market has been more fair than “soft.”

[Silly Moustache]

This is an interesting read, but I wonder how the market is in the UK/EU?

Some of you guys will remember the day you came home with a shiny new guitar and your wife/partner put her hands on her hips and gave you "that look" eah?

My wife has always been supportive of my music, and photography when I couldn't play, but there was "that" day.

I told her that my guitars would not lose value over the years and were effectively "wooden stock bonds" - which she could cash in when I die (or whatever) but now at 71 with hand issues, I'm thinking that the time is approaching, but I fear I'll be selling into a buyer's market, or worse, no market.

Thoughts anyone (in EU?)

[Maryc-k]

It's very hard to get American-made guitars in the EU, from what I hear. I think you will find buyers. The person to ask is Trevor at Acoustic Music Company in Brighton.

As for hand issues, I have found a homeopathic cream, which is actually made in the UK, by a company called Helios, made of Ruta Gravolens, and Rhus Tox, has been very helpful. Give it a try. It can't hurt. It either won't work or you might get a few more years of pickin' in

https://www.helios.co.uk/shop/rhus-t...cream-30g-tube


As for sales, I am starting to wonder if it's who is selling the item (some shops have stuff just sit and collect dust, while if that same instrument was at another it would have been gone gone gone).