Epiphone (FT-150BL) intonation is out..also plays a bit hard

[three4rd]

Hi,

No new story hear. I've been fighting this battle for years, but it's gotten worse. I don't think it's the strings, cause I've put on several new sets recently with the same result. A bit of background...this guitar is over 40 years old for one thing...and was in the shop to be set-up about 3 years ago. Following the set-up, it played quite well, but when I got home and attempted to adjust the treble side screw on the bridge, the not screw snapped off - so the remainder of the screw is still inside the bridge but no easy way to get it back out.

I've ALWAYS had sore fingers from playing this guitar after an hour or more. Action height at the 12th fret is actually pretty decent according to what I read it should be on several websites - about 2/32 on the treble side and 3/32 on the bass. And yet, as I said, I have always gotten finger pain from playing it - to the point where I typically take an ibuprofen before any performance where I'm going to be using it.

I switched from medium to light gauge strings years ago, which made it a bit easier to play. Lately, the intonation is really bad. Particularly, if I play a 14th fret B on the A string, it is vastly sharp compared to the open B string; likewise, if I play a 14th fret E on the D string, it is also sharp compare to the open E string. This, obviously, results in pretty crappy sounding chords around that part of the neck. 12th fret harmonic on the B string has always been flat compared to the note on the 12th fret. The rest of the harmonics / fretted notes have always been pretty close but now it seems like most of them are out.

Any advice? Another set-up in order or just get a new guitar? The guy who set it up accused me of using too much finger pressure being that there are pretty significant grooves worn in the fretboard. My style of playing is basically finger style (though with a pick) new age / classical. Basically very little hard strumming, rock, etc.

I suppose at 40+ years old, this old Epiphone has served its time. I think I'd be doing myself a favor by going to the music store where I got it set up and trying some of his higher end acoustics. A friend of mine loaned me his (lower end) Ovation, but I found that even harder to play than the Epiphone. If I do get a new guitar, I wonder if the Epiphone might sell on eBay?

Thanks for any thoughts....

[ChalkLitIScream]

Well on the intonation side of things, you'd need a new saddle.
But before you do that, you gotta nail down and get the action right:
-1st fret action of your nut slots are too high, notes are hard to fret. Test this by playing in open position, then put a capo on first fret and see if open position was hard to play

-action at the 12th fret seems ok, though you could probably lower it a bit more. That isn't the issue here.

-check neck relief, see if there is an excessive amount of relief.


I suspect that tension may require a neck reset. How tall is your saddle sticking up above the bridge?

[zombywoof]

It is not an age issue. These early MIJ Epiphones, however, can suffer from some structural problems. When Gibson shifted production to Japan they simply licensed the Epiphone name and had nothing to do with the design or building of the guitars. While I obviously cannot say for certain that this is what is driving you nuts, these early MIJ guitars were prone to neck issues because of the way they were put together. It is not all that uncommon to find the neck block is loose or is shifting. I would think though that if this is the case you would see some stress fracturing between the end of the board and soundhole or around the bridge. But you might have somebody at least check it out.

[three4rd]

Originally Posted by ChalkLitIScream

Well on the intonation side of things, you'd need a new saddle.
But before you do that, you gotta nail down and get the action right:
-1st fret action of your nut slots are too high, notes are hard to fret. Test this by playing in open position, then put a capo on first fret and see if open position was hard to play

-action at the 12th fret seems ok, though you could probably lower it a bit more. That isn't the issue here.

-check neck relief, see if there is an excessive amount of relief.


I suspect that tension may require a neck reset. How tall is your saddle sticking up above the bridge?

Neck relief seems about the same on both sides, as does the height of saddle above bridge - I get roughly 4/32". This is assuming I'm measuring it the correct way. On mine, there is an inside metal piece that raises up out of the slot on either end when an adjustment screw is turned (one screw on each end of the bridge). As I mentioned, the screw on the treble side is snapped off and so can't be adjusted anymore. So the measurement I mentioned is from the surface of the metal piece to the top of the ivory / bone (or whatever that piece is made of).

The bridge is, of course, a curved piece, and so if I measure from the actual wood surface to the top of the saddle, I get 5/32 on the bass side and 4/32 on the treble. I could experiment with adjusting the bass side, but can't do anything with the other so not sure how much value there is in messing with just one end.

I notice no difference playing open position with or without a capoed 1st fret. Same intonation problems exist either way . Particularly bad are chords that use a combination of open and fretted strings on the upper part of the neck. I'm definitely doing to replace strings (again). I suppose it's possible that the strings I bought online (D'Addario EJ16) may not be true intonation-wise. Can't speak to the 'shelf life' of a guitar string that is still in the original packaging.

Not sure I really want to take this back to the store for another reset. Should I try adjusting the rod slightly and see if it improves the intonation? I've done this quite a few times over the years but not since everything was reset.

[three4rd]

Originally Posted by zombywoof

It is not an age issue. These early MIJ Epiphones, however, can suffer from some structural problems. When Gibson shifted production to Japan they simply licensed the Epiphone name and had nothing to do with the design or building of the guitars. While I obviously cannot say for certain that this is what is driving you nuts, these early MIJ guitars were prone to neck issues because of the way they were put together. It is not all that uncommon to find the neck block is loose or is shifting. I would think though that if this is the case you would see some stress fracturing between the end of the board and soundhole or around the bridge. But you might have somebody at least check it out.

Interesting info. I don't see evidence of any fracturing. I could certainly take it back into the same luthier that reset it a few years ago - the guy definitely knows his stuff - but I'm thinking that perhaps any repair money at this point could be better allocated to the purchase of a new instrument. After using this for over 40 years and dealing with less than perfect intonation and finger pain, and at 62 years old I believe I owe it to myself to have a new guitar. There is a sort of sentimental attachment to it, but it was certainly not what you'd call a high-end guitar even back when I bought it. Almost hard to believe I released 2 albums using this instrument and they both came out pretty decent. The wonders of digital EQ and effects I suppose

[highvibrational]

Somebody gave me one of these beauties this past week-end and I took it to my tech to have it checked out since the action was high. He happened to know about these since his first guitar was something similar. The bolt-on necks are prone to coming apart and lifting off, breaking the guitar in two and sometimes in an explosive fashion. Mine was in the beginning stages so I think I caught it in good time. I'm paying 150 for the neck reinforcement as well as a set up and hope it will last!

For you, sir, I do hope you treated yourself to a nice new guitar. No one should have to take ibuprofen before a performance.