#1
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Small(er) body acoustic archtop recommendations
I'm sure this thread's been done a hundred times, but the forum search isn't helping me find them.
I am semi-casually trolling the classifieds for a first archtop, mostly for fingerstyle and light picking, I really like the percussive chop and the distinctive tone of them on old records. I'd like to keep it under 1k. I mostly play acoustic, but I don't mind an acoustic-electric if it sounds great unplugged. I'd like something with a scale length under 25" and a lower bout under 16". Playable, with good tone and intonation. I'm not against vintage, just don't know enough about archtops to know how to play or evaluate one. Thoughts or suggestions? Right now there are two possibles on my list, an acoustic Godin 5th Avenue, or a Loar LH600. An Eastman would be awesome, but too expensive for my budget right now, same for most vintage Gibsons. There are a couple of 50s/60s Kays and Harmonys on Craigslist within an hour or so of me, but both have issues and make me nervous. I'm in central NC, and really don't see many on the walls at the guitar shops around here. Last edited by Fatfinger McGee; 09-23-2020 at 09:27 PM. |
#2
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I have owned an acoustic Godin 5th Ave and do own a The Loar LH-700, which differs from the 600 mainly in the neck wood.
The Godin is like a very well-built Harmony, with laminates all around, and had that sound. The Loar is all carved solid woods. It’s very much a 20s L5 copy, including the sound and the neck. The neck may be a problem for you; it’s a huge V-neck - which I love, even with my small hands, but it’s not for everybody. The Loar will come much closer to that tone. An Eastman is very much a modern guitar (think Benedetto) and won’t get that old tone. The old guitars were intended to cut through horns, like a tenor banjo; the modern ones are more solo instruments (to simplify it) I wouldn’t hesitate to buy the Godin without playing it first. I would always play the Loar first. I say that, but don’t live it - I bought mine used on eBay, but had reason to believe it was ok from the description. The seller had a luthier set it up and dress the frets, and the photos confirmed that and showed the neck angle was good. The frets are perfect. I love the guitar. It’s fun to play. It looks fabulous. I avoid picking it up after playing my Martin because it sounds bad to my ear when I do that, until I adjust again to the archtop tone. I put Martin Retro Mediums on it and chunk away with a stiff pick. I added a Paul Fox bound L5 pickguard, changed the tailpiece to an ABM 1504, and swapped the perfectly good gold-plated Grovers for nickel Waverlies because I am anal and didn’t want a nickle tailpiece and gold tuners. I added a JJB pickup (the bell brass ABM tailpiece is hard - it took ages to drill out for the jack.) Silly Moustache had a bad experience with Loar, but I believe that was an early one and the QA has gotten better. One reason to buy used is that someone else has already dealt with all that. The 600 series is a huge quality jump from the 300. Well that’s enough of that. Steven |
#3
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You should try a 16" or 17" archtop before you dismiss them. They play a lot easier than you'd think, if you are familiar with a similar sized dreadnaught or Jumbo with 4" to 5" deep sides. An archtop usually has 3" or shallower sides, and they fit under your arm in a completely different way. I find that smaller archtops don't develop the richness of tone that a larger one does, so mine are mostly 16" or a bit larger.
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Brian Evans Around 15 archtops, electrics, resonators, a lap steel, a uke, a mandolin, some I made, some I bought, some kinda showed up and wouldn't leave. Tatamagouche Nova Scotia. Last edited by MC5C; 09-25-2020 at 07:10 AM. |
#4
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Some great advice, thanks. I'll see if I can find a Loar LH600 to try. I'm not against a larger body guitar, L-5s and L-7s are pretty incredible and I'm large enough to comfortably hold one. It's just that I started looking at archtops because I've been spending time listening to guys on Youtube noodling on old vintage Olympic and Zenith Epiphones, and really like the sweet punchy bluesy tone, percussive strums, and single note sound, figured a smaller body would be closer to that. Like I say, I'm just starting to pay attention to them and have never played one, so I still have a lot to figure out.
Is there a reasonably-priced modern equivalent to the vintage Epiphone Zenith and Olympics? Other than the obvious answer of new masterbilt Epiphones, which seem to be pretty cheaply built. |
#5
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My thoughts:
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"Mistaking silence for weakness and contempt for fear is the final, fatal error of a fool" - Sicilian proverb (paraphrased) Last edited by Steve DeRosa; 09-25-2020 at 09:14 AM. |
#6
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Steve, Steven, and Brian, thank you for the thoughtful and thorough posts, you've been extremely helpful and informative.
A lot to think about. It really sounds like before I try them out, I need some homework and practice on how to play them properly. It's funny, my first guitar teacher tried to teach me to play like that, and I pretty much ignored him. He was an old hippie jazz guy, and I wanted to play folk and bluegrass. The cello register thought appeals to me VERY much, both in selecting an instrument and deciding what to play on it. Thanks again all. |
#7
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I have, at the moment, both 17", and 15" vintage Epiphone archtops, and have previously owned the 16" variety, While they are all(mostly) wonderful, the smaller ones do indeed have a distinctive tone. At the moment, I just did a neck reset, and a refret, on a '35 Epi Zenith(14-3/4"), and I'm very pleased with it. I play these Epis mostly with a flatpick, and IMO, they mostly don't work as well for fingerstyle. By chance, I recently bought a '33 Martin R-18 roundhole archtop, and that one does work better for fingerstyle(it's x-braced, as opposed to tone-bar braced, which certainly makes the difference). I do feel the earlier Epis('32-35), which are braced slightly differently than the '36 and later guitars, have a tone that would work better for fingerstyle, and have heard them used to great effect.
All my Epis needed some significant amount of work(which I do myself), to play their best. You can see and hear a number of vintage archtops, which I've repaired, at my FB page, David Richard Luthier. Good luck with your search. |
#8
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Totally agree with Dave here. I have collected a number of vintage Gibson archtops over the past few years, the first was a 1948 L-50 (that was the guitar that got me hooked) in great original condition. The 16" lower bout size, for any archtop, IMO, is the best place to start if this is going to be your first. The smaller size models, like the L-30 (14-1/2") and, for example the L-1 (13"), of which I own examples of each, have upper registers that are somewhat similar in the quality of their tone. However, the lower register, or the bass, is just not that satisfying. I love to play my little L-1, but I'm not as inspired as I am when I play one of my L-50's, or, for that matter, my most recent acquisition, a gorgeous 1934 Gibson L-7 with a 17" lower bout. The fullness of tone and the deeper bottom-end is just amazing. So, if I was to choose the body size to own, if I had to own just one, it would definitely be the 16".
Last edited by Kerbie; 10-14-2020 at 04:02 PM. Reason: Fixed quote |