Is anyone else "falling out of love" with acoustic guitar body resonance modeling?

lkingston · #1 07-16-2017, 06:30 PM

When I first got my Voicelive 3, I couldn't get enough of the "BodyRez" modeling. Slowly, my ears started to adjust and I grew to prefer the sound of the guitar without it. When I got my Boss VE8 and AD-2 pedals, I really liked the sound of the body resonance modeling all over again, but now some months later, this love affair has gone away as well. I remember going through the same love to dislike thing with my Line6 acoustic several years ago.

Is it just me, or do a person's ears eventually learn to hear through the trickery? I really, really liked it at first, and it bothers me to the point where I'd rather leave off the effect now.

I've gone through something similar with vocal harmonizers: initial love gradually turning into mild, then more intense dislike.

Marty C · #2 07-16-2017, 07:20 PM

Not sure if my ears became more critical, or I just got to a point where I don't like it. Yesterday, I plugged my guitar direct into my Behringer xr12 and I really like the clean sound. I am with you. I think I have spent lots of time and money trying to improve my sound but in the end, I come back full circle. I also think we learn a lot Through those processes. I certainly have. Mainly about eq.

Woodstock School Of Music · #3 07-16-2017, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lkingston

When I first got my Voicelive 3, I couldn't get enough of the "BodyRez" modeling. Slowly, my ears started to adjust and I grew to prefer the sound of the guitar without it. When I got my Boss VE8 and AD-2 pedals, I really liked the sound of the body resonance modeling all over again, but now some months later, this love affair has gone away as well. I remember going through the same love to dislike thing with my Line6 acoustic several years ago.

Is it just me, or do a person's ears eventually learn to hear through the trickery? I really, really liked it at first, and it bothers me to the point where I'd rather leave off the effect now.

I've gone through something similar with vocal harmonizers: initial love gradually turning into mild, then more intense dislike.

I have the VoiceLive 3 and I've never been a fan of the Bodyrez patches on it they sound kind of artificial to me. I've never used the Bodyrez pedal but I've been told the patches are different than what's on the VL3 but I forgot how. I use the basic Acoustic amp and tweak to taste.

jonfields45 · #4 07-17-2017, 05:56 AM

YES! Tried them all (well not Tonedexter) and ended up getting rid of them. I used a harmonizer on a few gigs and let that go too. I recently was at a restaurant where the singer guitarist had a harmonizer on the entire time and thought it sounded irritating (but my non-musician wife liked it).

Silly Moustache · #5 07-17-2017, 06:07 AM

AFAIC - if you plug an acoustic guitar into something (as we have to do from time to time) - you are compromising the tone.
If you add an FX or (good heavens) a "modeller" effect - then you have left your guitar sound out of the loop - might as well be playing some cheap laminate job.

We buy Acoustic guitars for their tonal qualities. I see no happy relationship with a good acoustic and a "modeller".

Neon Soul · #6 07-17-2017, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

AFAIC - if you plug an acoustic guitar into something (as we have to do from time to time) - you are compromising the tone.

That all depends on your pickup.

If you have a crappy piezo to start with, then there isn't really a nice tone to compromise now is there.

So, to counter your statement someone could say:

"AFAIC - if you plug in an acoustic guitar - you are compromising the tone."

Stratcat77 · #7 07-17-2017, 08:05 AM

I had a Play Acoustic and used it for a while until a patron spilled beer into it and fried it!

I initially liked the Body Rez thing, and have nothing bad to say about the Play Acoustic. But when it fried I decided to try the LR Baggs Venue, and I will say that I like my new tone better. It seems more punchy and analog. I got compliments on my guitar sound from a friend who came out to hear me last weekend. He's not a musician, but is a big music fan who loves live music and has a critical ear. Another guy I play with occasionally who is an amazing pro player said he heard a big improvement in my tone when I got the Venue. Could be I just never got the PA dialed in well. It's a very nice unit. But the Venue is simpler and easy to get a good tone out of.

6L6 · #8 07-17-2017, 08:15 AM

If I want to sound my best, I mic my guitar. No effects, just natural acoustic sound.

ljguitar · #9 07-17-2017, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lkingston

…Is it just me, or do a person's ears eventually learn to hear through the trickery? I really, really liked it at first, and it bothers me to the point where I'd rather leave off the effect now.

Hi lk

Manufacturers keep building equipment which perform this 'service' for players, which means you are not alone in liking it (sometimes).

Given the fact you describe a history of liking…then liking-it-less…then being bothered by the effect…for a while and then LIKING etc all over again, it seems you are never settled on what you like.

I saw the pattern you described beginning to creep into my own guitar-life, and decided I had to get it under control. So I set out about 15 years ago on a quest to develop a live pickup rig I could 'live with' (usually the best amplified sound in any room I'm playing in) and then living with it even when new gear emerges.

I decided it's ok for me to like the tone of my guitars at home in the living room way better than the tone through the PA/amp, and then assemble a live-play-pickup-system which sounds very guitar-like through PA systems and acoustic amps which I take into public even though it's not an exact representation of my guitar.

The audience doesn't care…

Part of that process was based on the truth that audiences-don't-care about our pickup sound (unless it's making their ears bleed, and feeding back). Once I start a gig, I have 30 seconds to grab their attention, and if I don't have their attention, it doesn't matter what kind of guitar, pickup, PA I'm using.

And even if I do grab their attention in that first 30 seconds…it doesn't matter what kind of guitar, pickup, PA I'm using. People just want to hear good music and playing.

I shoot portraits for $$$ and in over 40 years of making some serious $$$ doing it, I've never had a client obsess over my camera/lens or retouching software. Clients don't care about cameras, just pictures.

Same with music.

Paultergeist · #10 07-17-2017, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty C

......I think I have spent lots of time and money trying to improve my sound but in the end, I come back full circle. I also think we learn a lot Through those processes. I certainly have. Mainly about eq.

I feel exactly the same way. I have spent a lot of time and money chasing after idealistic sounds. In the end, a good guitar, matched to a good pick-up system, and plugged into a good pre-amp lets me achieve an excellent tone through most typical acoustic amps or basic PA systems. No modelers required (though I have previously owned two). Effects-wise, I use a couple, but I am keeping it pretty simple. I have often found better results from really learning how to optimize the equipment I already own, rather than rushing out to but the latest thing. For myself, I am just trying to have a pleasing tone, and then essentially forget about it so I have focus on actually playing music.

lkingston · #11 07-17-2017, 10:01 AM

One thing I really do like is analog EQ. To my ears, the difference between analog and digital EQ is what happens when you boost the frequencies. A digital EQ cuts and boosts frequencies. A decent analog EQ adds a little saturation as it cuts or boosts which just sounds so good! It rounds out a thumb bass, takes the quack out of a piezo, adds midrange warmth, and stretches the highs.

lkingston · #12 07-17-2017, 12:10 PM

I meant to say that an analog EQ add saturation just when you boost frequencies.

zhunter · #13 07-17-2017, 01:45 PM

My Yamaha AC3M has on board modeling/imaging in the preamp. I am still satisfied with it. I bought it to use plugged in based on how well it compared to the other available options. It still does fine. Decent albeit a little small acoustic sound too.

hunter

MrErikJ · #14 07-17-2017, 02:57 PM

I think that the advantages provided by a modeler depends on the pickup in your guitar, the unaltered tone it produces,how that tone compares to your original guitar, and whether the modeler brings those two closer together. I use a dread w/a Baggs LB6 and run it into a Body Rez and then into a Tonebone PZ Deluxe. Personally, I think it sounds swell and I have received compliments on it. That said, there are some caveats to this that clarify my recommendation of the Body Rez.

1. I think the Body Rez works best w/a passive piezo: The Body Rez employs some compression, EQ, and reverb (and more, I'm sure) to your pickup sound. The compression is great at reducing quack, which is really the sound of a piezo clipping. This will only help if your pickup has no endpin preamp. You can't undistort a signal that's distorted, especially one with a preamp that early in the chain. However, if it's passive, the Body Rez can clean that up.

2. The EQ is "one-size fits all": The Body Rez cuts some mids on your pickup, which is usually needed. However, the amount of mids it cuts is more than my guitar's natural EQ. It's a Cedar/Mahogany dread, which means it has a full and warm midrange. The Body Rez wants to make it sound more like a D-28.

3. I only use it a little bit and even then, it needs a good preamp: I only use my Body Rez between 9 and Noon as that keeps the signal clean and helps get the EQ right more easily. More than that and it gets squishy in tone. However, it then goes to a PZ Deluxe which has 15 volts of headroom, so I don't have to worry about quack. It's still possible to overdrive a 9 volt preamp with the Body Rez.

Ultimately, it doesn't sound exactly like my guitar, but I frequently receive compliments because the sound is clean and realistic. There isn't the electric feel of a mag nor the ice pick high-end and distorted quack of some undersaddles. It isn't as warm as a SBT but it's also more clear. As LJ said, the fine nuances of my guitar that I appreciate will be lost upon the audience. As soon as you need volume for a live performance, the intricacies available in studio recording are lost. I don't try to recreate or capture those tones, I just want a sound that's good and is clean, free of any distortion or excessive tonal artifacts. My LB6 doesn't sound like a condensor mic in front of my guitar, but with the right tools it sounds clean and acoustic, which is all I need. I won't obsess over a "perfect" tone as much as a good tone that everyone can enjoy and recognize as an acoustic guitar.

People I play with are always surprised by the quality of my tone and I say that you don't need the fanciest pickup to sound good, you just need a quality pickup and the right signal path. Passive pickups like the Sunrise, LB6, and K&K with good preamps will never sound bad. The Body Rez (or something comparable) may help you get closer. Maybe.

Andy Howell · #15 07-17-2017, 04:03 PM

I tend to agree with ljguitar. Audiences don't care about much but that 30 secs is key.

Digital processing is wonderful but has to be used sparingly I think. I can seem a bit bland to me a bit too smooth - a bit of grit is always better. Harmonisers can be astonishing but using one on a gig I guess there is a tremendous temptation to use them too often.