Ribbon microphones

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Hey thanks I was not aware of the U89. very interesting (learn somethin' new)

One of the nicest recording sounds I've gotten on solo guitar was in a studio where the engineer set up a pair of U89s about 3 feet away, maybe 4 feet apart. Every now and then I think I should get a pair just because I remember that recording. I'm sure the nice studio space had something to do with it.

[dnf777]

Billy Bragg and Joe Henry’s “Shine a Light” album was recorded across America in train cars, RR stations, and outdoors, all with two ribbon mics and a field recorder. Im quite sure there was some fancy post-production mastering, but quite impressive given the sans-studio approach!

[RRuskin]

Originally Posted by min7b5

I believe the u89 was originally marketed as a possible updated u87, but didn't catch on in that way. Now, maybe because it's a very neutral sounding mic, without the trademark Neumann midrange, it's seemingly used more in the classical world. It also seems to pickup better at a distance than the u87, so I think that's why it's caught a bit in the one-mic live bluegrass world. I think the TLM 170R is the same capsule but with no transformer -that's a mic that interests me personally..

When it was introduced, the U89 was touted as an alternative to the 87 for those wanting a more neutral sounding mic. I don't think it was meant as an update or a replacement.

[shufflebeat]

Originally Posted by jim1960

They record in a Figure 8 pattern so they'll pick up more of your room sound than a cardioid condenser.

Just to clarify, this is not always the case, my Beyer m260n is hypercardioid.

The soft top end makes a great job of instruments that you don't want in your face, rhythm guitar that you want present but not in the front line.

When you do boost the high end it brings in an element of articulation rather than sheen, sounds in the back of a singer's throat rather than air.

It doesn't work for every source, but then neither does any other mic, apart from maybe the m201

[Parlorman]

I really like my Royer R-121 for recording finger style acoustics. I place monthly vintage parlor guitars and the 121 captures the nuances of them nicely. I run it through Royer’s dBooster in-line signal booster

[guitarman68]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

One of the nicest recording sounds I've gotten on solo guitar was in a studio where the engineer set up a pair of U89s about 3 feet away, maybe 4 feet apart. Every now and then I think I should get a pair just because I remember that recording. I'm sure the nice studio space had something to do with it.

When I thinned out and updated my mic locker a few years ago it came to the point were I decided which one to keep and which one to sell - U87 vs U89. I sold the U87 and never regretted it ever since. The U89 is such an awesome mic on anything I used the U87 for , but without that harsh and grainy content I did not like in the U87 on some sources. And yes, it's very nice on acoustic guitar or one-mic-applications.

[min7b5]

Originally Posted by guitarman68

... The U89 is such an awesome mic on anything I used the U87 for , but without that harsh and grainy content I did not like in the U87 on some sources....

Staying off topic -though perhaps still about softer mics on harder sources as Michael Paul Stavrou might say- Neumann’s TLM 170 R is another mic that interests me quite a bit. I believe the 170 shares the same capsule as the u89 (and it’s cardiod-only brethren the TLM 193) but is transformer-less.

[keith.rogers]

Kind of veering back to OP's original question, I've seen the AEA ribbons (probably just the N22 and KUSA) in some of the "stories" (acoustic cover subset from the Scary Pockets) as well as Scary Pockets' channel YouTube videos. (Lately, the acoustic stuff has been largely focused on the Earthworks SR314 for vocals, and it continues to go up and down in the GAS list. Ok, that's a digression.)

Unfortunately, the performers are top notch, so hard to judge how they might work with average folks. Kind of tongue-in-cheek, but MJ did wonders for the SM7b's popularity. Not that it's a bad mic...

I've been interested, but, honestly, the whole concept of a "ribbon" that is [arguably] the most fragile of microphone designs has left me staying outside that playhouse. For what I do, I just don't see the risk/reward thing making sense.

[Doug Young]

I never understand this desire to hear bad performers do demos, that comes up here now and then. What I want to know is what the gear is capable of, and a good performance helps show that. MJ showed what an SM7 is capable of. If I sing thru one and it doesn't sound as good, well, I know where the problem lies. With a demo that sounds bad, i dont know if its the gear or the performer or how the gear is being (mis)used.

Modern ribbons are not as fragile as vintage ones, from what i understand. A lot of the reputation about ribbons is from ancient mics. You want to treat them nice, but thats also true of condensers.

One issue with ribbons is that the figure 8 pattern may not be ideal for bad room acoustics. The N22 is specifically designed to help with that - so in a sense, its meant for not mediocre performers, but for those with mediocre acoustics. Ribbons often have pretty strong proximity effect, but N22s are meant for close micing, reducing the impact of the room. Ive had the best luck with N22s literally a few inches from the guitar.

Passive ribbons also usually are sensitive to the preamp (impedance) and need a lot of gain, so thats another pro vs amateur issue - not how well someone plays, but how good their signal chain is, and again, the N22 helps with that by being an active mic that works with phantom power.

[min7b5]

Here’s a great podcast interview (part one of two) with Wes Dooley of AEA talking about ribbon mics that people might find interesting. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcas...=1000471720856 By the way, I cannot talk enough about what a treasure Doug Fearn’s “My Take on Music Recording” podcast series is. I’m going through the entire series a second time lately and I just can’t believe what a gift to the world it is. And since he’s huge ribbon mic fan I’m fairly on topic here.

[keith.rogers]

Originally Posted by min7b5

Here’s a great podcast interview (part one of two) with Wes Dooley of AEA talking about ribbon mics that people might find interesting. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcas...=1000471720856 By the way, I cannot talk enough about what a treasure Doug Fearn’s “My Take on Music Recording” podcast series is. I’m going through the entire series a second time lately and I just can’t believe what a gift to the world it is. And since he’s huge ribbon mic fan I’m fairly on topic here.

Fascinating podcast. Thanks.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by keith.rogers

I've been interested, but, honestly, the whole concept of a "ribbon" that is [arguably] the most fragile of microphone designs has left me staying outside that playhouse. For what I do, I just don't see the risk/reward thing making sense.

Are you doing location recording ?

[min7b5]

Originally Posted by keith.rogers

Fascinating podcast. Thanks.

I think so too! I should have mentioned above that the second half of that conversation -which is actually episode 10 of the podcast (which is odd)- gets much more into technical information about ribbon mics, while the first half is more about Wes Dooley personally.

[keith.rogers]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Are you doing location recording ?

I was doing a bit up until last year! Along the slog through all of that [year], I have decided that page has turned, and so I've whittled down much of my equipment to just fool around in my little mixing room - 1 or 2 people, max. The room is really too small to do much else, and having to swap around mics much is just asking for trouble so I'm limiting my wandering-mic-eye to things I expect I'll actually use in the room that are "better" than something I might have, keeping it to at least 1-in/1-out, if not more on the "out" side of that equation.

[thestubbyone]

I got a cheap ribbon mic from guitar center, an RSM 5. Sound quality not as good as the AKG condenser mic but it does have one distinct advantage. I can record with one mic myself playing acoustic guitar and singing. That is when I orient the mic to take advantage of the figure eight design, limiting pick up from the guitar but maximizing vocal out put. With the condenser mic have to place the mic way over my head as far away from guitar as possible, other wise my heavy picking style drowns out my voice. Doesn't happen with a dynamic shure M58 or the correctly set ribbon mic. And the guitar sounds much better with the ribbon mic than the dynamic mic.