#1
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What do "phase" errors sound like?
Does it sound muddy? Using a spaced pair how would you avoid it? Would recording in mono be better and then just copy the track and pan each one hard l/r?
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Barry Sad Moments {Marianne Vedral cover}: My SoundCloud page Some steel strings, some nylon. |
#2
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The easiest way to hear it would be to set up 2 mics, listen on headphones, and have somebody else play. Leave one mic alone, and slowly move the other mic along the front of the guitar, different distances from the stationary mic.
You’ll probably hear the sound change, almost like a wah wah pedal, emphasizing weird midrange frequencies, the low end dropping out and coming back in. It’s actually, in my opinion, easier to get a good clean sound with one mic. For stereo guitar, you could put a reverb on it, which will give the illusion of the guitar being played in a space. And yes, you could duplicate the part and pan it, but those results won’t be too impressive because they are identical. My favorite way to do this is to play another part with a mono mic, either trying to duplicate the first part, or playing something complimentary.
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Gibson J-50, 1970 Larrivee 00-40 Republic steel-body resonator, 2016 maybe Basses Electric guitars Lap steel |
#3
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It's a hassle workflow wise but I've really liked the sound of Mid/Side recordings in my music room. The room is pretty bright and could use some sound treatment but for better or worse with Mid/Side I can get something that sounds true to the room!
An advantage is you can get back to the (monophonic) Mid-only signal completely if you want to after the fact, with no phase issues.
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Grabbed his jacket Put on his walking shoes Last seen, six feet under Singing the I've Wasted My Whole Life Blues ---Warren Malone "Whole Life Blues" |
#4
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Without going into a lot of detail, phase cancellation happens from left and right sources "on the way" to the ears, which you will NOT generally hear in headphones.
The very best way to understand what phase cancellation does is to take your monitor speakers and face them toward each other with about 6" of seperation between them. When they are phase correct the sound will be full, with all of the source material, especially lower frequencies, being robust. While listening by way of any DAW simply invert one side and you'll instantly understand phase cancellation and why it's so bad. |
#5
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Quote:
"Would recording in mono be better and then just copy the track and pan each one hard l/r?" You will end up mono. What would be the point of that?
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Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above |
#6
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Ok, thanks everyone
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Barry Sad Moments {Marianne Vedral cover}: My SoundCloud page Some steel strings, some nylon. |
#7
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The Auto-Align plugin works great. You really can hear a difference. Maybe it will go on sale for BF. I think it has in the past.
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Jim 2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi 2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood 2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar 2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce 2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce 1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos. YouTube |
#8
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As others have said, bigger phase problems typically sound thin and nasally because the low frequencies are cancelling out. I sometimes use the Little Labs Phase Alignment UAD plugin with a spaced pair, but I usually don't need it unless I'm doing 12th fret plus an over the shoulder mic or something less conventional.
If I was to pan the left and right channels of my spaced pair to center, I can usually hear some minor phase misalignments at certain higher frequencies that I can do nothing about. But those small phasing issues are part of what makes a spaced pair sound bigger and better to my ear than xy or other coincident techniques stereo. So the minor phasing issues with a spaced pair are worth it for me, I'm not to worried about the handful of people in the world who listen in mono critiquing me. If you record in mono and dump one channel left and the other right, you could create a stereo image IF you put a delay on one channel.... 20ms or whatever. This sort of pseudo stereo technique was used more back when folks had less channels, I think. Now delays are still common for thickening certain elements.... and If I'm using a delay to thicken something, I'll often dump it to one side to add stereo width. Of course delaying the signal is going to create some phasing so then were back to that.... which doesn't stop from doing if I ever feel like it. Whatever the technique, if it sounds better to me at the time I'm experimenting with it, then I will carry on with it.
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Alvarez: DY61 Huss and Dalton: DS Crossroads, 00-SP Kenny Hill: Heritage, Performance Larrivee: CS09 Matt Thomas Limited Taylor: 314ce, 356e, Baritone 8 Timberline: T60HGc |
#9
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If your stereo recording (with phasing issues) ever gets transmitted on an AM radio station you definitely don't want to be on the receiving end!
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#10
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Frankly don't much care about people who make a habit of listening to music on AM radio.
__________________
Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above |
#11
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Quote:
There are still viable reasons for making sure your recordings are mono compatible. |
#12
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Compromises of maximizing mono on stereo sound too great IMO.
__________________
Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above |
#13
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Please, let's not get into a stereo vs mono debate.
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#14
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I'm not sure that's even possible anymore.
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#15
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A couple of years ago, I bought some Beatles cd that had two versions of each song, one in the original mono and another in stereo. I don't know how they achieved the stereo tracks but to hear those early Beatles tunes in anything but mono just sounds off.
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Jim 2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi 2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood 2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar 2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce 2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce 1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos. YouTube |