Beyond a good mix, what is a good mastering strategy for me?

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Good to hear. Reverb choice is subjective naturally. Personally on reverb use I am usually at -14db or lower (or in percentage usuall well under ten percent). Also there are reverbs and usage of them that fatten up the initial pluck of notes rather than drawing them out much time wise.

I've got access to several reverb packages.

Izotope Neoverb
LiquidSonics Seventh Heaven
Focusrite Reverb plugins (they came with my Scarlett 2i4 interface which I don't use anymore)
Reaper Reverb plugins

I just need to take a raw recording and start playing around with them. Your comment about drawing out the notes is interesting. On the Sunset Chamber reverb in Seventh Heaven I used on the recording above, the default delay is 2.15 seconds and I think I used that in believing it would "fatten" the notes up a bit. That may not really be the case.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

I've got access to several reverb packages.

Izotope Neoverb
LiquidSonics Seventh Heaven
Focusrite Reverb plugins (they came with my Scarlett 2i4 interface which I don't use anymore)
Reaper Reverb plugins

I just need to take a raw recording and start playing around with them. Your comment about drawing out the notes is interesting. On the Sunset Chamber reverb in Seventh Heaven I used on the recording above, the default delay is 2.15 seconds and I think I used that in believing it would "fatten" the notes up a bit. That may not really be the case.

I tend to use convolution reverbs (for example Waves IR-1 or IR-L) and the Lexicon PCM Native Reverb Plugin Bundle most often.
I can usually find something that adds heft to the initial sound of notes while having the reverb tails set quite a few decibels down
(for what I do it's rare I would personally want an audible reverb tale much noticeable let alone lasting more than a second long).

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

I just need to take a raw recording and start playing around with them. Your comment about drawing out the notes is interesting. On the Sunset Chamber reverb in Seventh Heaven I used on the recording above, the default delay is 2.15 seconds and I think I used that in believing it would "fatten" the notes up a bit. That may not really be the case.

Reverb is a complicated topic. Jim has a bunch of interesting tutorials on his list, but as usual nothing talks about solo acoustic guitar. It gets tricky, as some reverb can make things sound better, but it can also make things distant and mushy. Not sure this is related to your specific question. It might be tho, I find that Sunset Chamber path on the 7th Heaven to be a bit "boingy", maybe that's part of what you're hearing in the car?

Your 7th Heaven plugin has a control for "Early/Late". Early is room reflections, very short. I suspect this is what Rick is talking about as far as fattening up the sound, tho I often get rid of a lot of the early reflections - to me they make things sound indistinct, just as recording in a bad room with reflections can do. A little can help, tho. To me, the ratio in the 7th Heaven plugin is usually too high on the Early. The "Late" is the long tail reverb. I usually use between 1 and 2 seconds, but it depends a lot on the mix. My reverb is usually at around -18db as a starting point. All subject to taste, and may vary greatly from plugin to plugin, so I'm not sure the exact number is meaningful. I also generally use a pre-delay, often around 90ms.

I just checked the track I posted a few days ago on my Lowden. I use the Liquid Sonics Cinematic Rooms reverb, a room reverb, 1.9s decay, 70ms pre-delay. Substantial treble rolloff, and mixed in at -21.5db. I recall the first "final" mix I did was a tad high, which I posted as a private draft you tube. On listening back over you tube, it seemed like too much reverb, so I dropped it, probably from around an initial -18 to the -21.5.

I usually like to solo the reverb and listen to it when dialing it in. I'm not 100% sure this makes sense, but my philosophy is that anything I add ought to sound good by itself. If the sound of the reverb is nasty, clangy, wobbling, uneven, etc, I probably don't want to mix that into my sound. I get that that may not always be true - tasting raw pepper might be not all that pleasant, but it can have a nice impact on your food. But still all things being equal, I'd like to think I'm placing my guitar in a very nice sounding room, so I try to check out what that room sounds like by itself as well as mixed in.

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Reverb is a complicated topic. Jim has a bunch of interesting tutorials on his list, but as usual nothing talks about solo acoustic guitar. It gets tricky, as some reverb can make things sound better, but it can also make things distant and mushy. Not sure this is related to your specific question. It might be tho, I find that Sunset Chamber path on the 7th Heaven to be a bit "boingy", maybe that's part of what you're hearing in the car?

Your 7th Heaven plugin has a control for "Early/Late". Early is room reflections, very short. I suspect this is what Rick is talking about as far as fattening up the sound, tho I often get rid of a lot of the early reflections - to me they make things sound indistinct, just as recording in a bad room with reflections can do. A little can help, tho. To me, the ratio in the 7th Heaven plugin is usually too high on the Early. The "Late" is the long tail reverb. I usually use between 1 and 2 seconds, but it depends a lot on the mix. My reverb is usually at around -18db as a starting point. All subject to taste, and may vary greatly from plugin to plugin, so I'm not sure the exact number is meaningful. I also generally use a pre-delay, often around 90ms.

I just checked the track I posted a few days ago on my Lowden. I use the Liquid Sonics Cinematic Rooms reverb, a room reverb, 1.9s decay, 70ms pre-delay. Substantial treble rolloff, and mixed in at -21.5db. I recall the first "final" mix I did was a tad high, which I posted as a private draft you tube. On listening back over you tube, it seemed like too much reverb, so I dropped it, probably from around an initial -18 to the -21.5.

I usually like to solo the reverb and listen to it when dialing it in. I'm not 100% sure this makes sense, but my philosophy is that anything I add ought to sound good by itself. If the sound of the reverb is nasty, clangy, wobbling, uneven, etc, I probably don't want to mix that into my sound. I get that that may not always be true - tasting raw pepper might be not all that pleasant, but it can have a nice impact on your food. But still all things being equal, I'd like to think I'm placing my guitar in a very nice sounding room, so I try to check out what that room sounds like by itself as well as mixed in.

Thanks Doug, this is excellent information.

[rick-slo]

Reverb is one part of the package but comes later in the game. Have a raw recording off in certain ways (too thin or harsh or unfocused) and no reverb choices can covert it to something pleasant. On a raw recording that came out well there are of things you can do to spice it up more according to your preferences.

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Reverb is one part of the package but comes later in the game. Have a raw recording off in certain ways (too thin or harsh or unfocused) and no reverb choices can covert it to something pleasant. On a raw recording that came out well there are of things you can do to spice it up more according to your preferences.

I totally agree with making the performance as good as it can be my highest priority. Makes everything else easy.

[Doug Young]

Bob, be sure to check out the video Eric Skye just posted (in the recording sticky). It's ostensibly about mixing duets, but most of it addresses guitar in general, and what he demo's and discusses is very much in line with what I do, tho I sometimes get a little more carried away :-). Good demo.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Reverb is a complicated topic. Jim has a bunch of interesting tutorials on his list, but as usual nothing talks about solo acoustic guitar.

It wasn't a deliberate oversight. There are very few videos about any specific aspect of recording solo guitar. However, Eric Skye (min7b5) contributed a very good video today in which he goes through the mixing process he employed on his new acoustic duo album. He hits on reverb in that video and explains how he applies it. It can be found in the "RECORDING ACOUSTIC GUITARS" section of the video section of the AGF Members Gear Masterlist and Recommended Tutorial Videos stickied thread. It's the last video in the section.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by jim1960

It wasn't a deliberate oversight. There are very few videos about any specific aspect of recording solo guitar. However, Eric Skye (min7b5) contributed a very good video today in which he goes through the mixing process he employed on his new acoustic duo album. He hits on reverb in that video and explains how he applies it. It can be found in the "RECORDING ACOUSTIC GUITARS" section of the video section of the AGF Members Gear Masterlist and Recommended Tutorial Videos stickied thread. It's the last video in the section.

Right, I know it's not deliberate, there's just so little out there. I've told this story before about an article I read years ago. In SOS, Recording, Mix, something - some famous engineer on all about how to record acoustic guitar. He had tons of interesting tips, so I'm taking notes. In the final paragraph, he says "all these techniques are guaranteed to work, unless you're doing something totally crazy that no one ever does like recording solo instrumental guitar". Sigh... It's a niche area of interest.

I just watched Eric's video, very nice (and suggested it right above your post - we probably crossed)

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

In the final paragraph, he says "all these techniques are guaranteed to work, unless you're doing something totally crazy that no one ever does like recording solo instrumental guitar."

I'm thinking your expression wasn't too far from this at that moment.

Originally Posted by Doug Young

I just watched Eric's video, very nice (and suggested it right above your post - we probably crossed)

Yeah, I was writing that post then I realized I had forgotten to list Eric among those I thanked, so I went and did that, then came back and hit enter. Oh well, now people have double the chance of finding the video.

[SprintBob]

Here's a re-mix trying to incorporate some of Doug's and Derek's suggestions. Does not sound quite as good through Soundcloud as it does playing the WAV file direct off my hard drive.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

Here's a re-mix trying to incorporate some of Doug's and Derek's suggestions. Does not sound quite as good through Soundcloud as it does playing the WAV file direct off my hard drive.

More solid sounding notes. Harder picking with the fingers would balance out string output better. If you have a raw recording it would be interesting to hear a sample of that.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

Here's a re-mix trying to incorporate some of Doug's and Derek's suggestions. Does not sound quite as good through Soundcloud as it does playing the WAV file direct off my hard drive.

If you check the allow downloads box on soundcloud, it lets people download the original if they want to bypass what soundcloud's stream messes up.

I agree with Rick, the melody notes still "lack authority" for lack of a better description. Your car issue may just be that trying to turn it up enough to hear the melody makes the bass notes overdrive your car speakers.

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

More solid sounding notes. Harder picking with the fingers would balance out string output better. If you have a raw recording it would be interesting to hear a sample of that.

EQ wise I did subtractive EQ at around 150 Hz and additive EQ at around 3.5 kHz. Combined with the high pass at 80 Hz and the low pass at 20 kHz, I adjusted the Q at each point to “smooth” the EQ curve between the four points. The resulting profile looked much better balanced between low, mid, and high frequencies.

But again, you are absolutely correct in that I need to continue to refine my picking hand to produce that balance at the source.

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

If you check the allow downloads box on soundcloud, it lets people download the original if they want to bypass what soundcloud's stream messes up.

I agree with Rick, the melody notes still "lack authority" for lack of a better description. Your car issue may just be that trying to turn it up enough to hear the melody makes the bass notes overdrive your car speakers.

Thanks for the tip on Soundcloud. You can do a direct download now.