build solid mahogany chambered acoustic flattop: new method

[billgennaro]

Jhony,

I assume you've made guitars like this before, and that you've played more traditionally constructed instruments as well. How, in your experience, does your approach affect to the tone and responsiveness of the guitar (aside from building this way for structural purposes). I'd be really interested to hear your comments. Looks intriguing!

Bill

[billgennaro]

Originally Posted by GraceGuitars

Why would you even suggest that this is a joke? I don't get it.

I couldn't agree with you more, Jon. This forum floors me sometimes with the disrespect some people show.

[CoolerKing]

I, for one, am interested. Looking forward to seeing more pix.

[jhony_yavana]

Originally Posted by billgennaro

Jhony,

I assume you've made guitars like this before, and that you've played more traditionally constructed instruments as well. How, in your experience, does your approach affect to the tone and responsiveness of the guitar (aside from building this way for structural purposes). I'd be really interested to hear your comments. Looks intriguing!

Bill

For me, tonal clarity noticeably stronger. Besides the acoustic character will be better. Of course this all depends on the wood used and the dryness of the wood itself. This is my personal opinion

Ok, next week i'll upload the progress...thx

[Marc Durso]

Meaning no disrespect, but all I can think of looking at those huge blocks of wood is of the many, many guitars that could be built from them traditionally.

Originally Posted by jhony_yavana

Late post, finally it works









Perhaps this can help...

[jhony_yavana]

Originally Posted by Marc Durso

Meaning no disrespect, but all I can think of looking at those huge blocks of wood is of the many, many guitars that could be built from them traditionally.

Yes, you are right. I'm only interested in tonal quality that would produced if the body of the guitar is made of one solid wood (on the back and sides without jointed with glue). I think for the sake of taste and satisfaction of all methods and innovations worth a try (in addition to the reason that my budget is not big)

Maybe for you it is a bit strange, but that's the facts here

[thiseas]

Originally Posted by Marc Durso

Meaning no disrespect, but all I can think of looking at those huge blocks of wood is of the many, many guitars that could be built from them traditionally.

This is exactly what I thought when I realized that only 3 guitars would be built with this huge pile of wood.

Originally Posted by jhony_yavana

Yes, you are right. I'm only interested in tonal quality that would produced if the body of the guitar is made of one solid wood (on the back and sides without jointed with glue). I think for the sake of taste and satisfaction of all methods and innovations worth a try (in addition to the reason that my budget is not big)

Maybe for you it is a bit strange, but that's the facts here

In the current situation with natural resources such as wood running out, this experiment of yours doesn't make sense.
You're saying that this experiment is worth a try, I don't agree. Let's imagine for a moment that this project produces desirable results(great tonal qualities).
Where do you go from there? Do you start producing instruments like that in regular basis?

In my mind experimenting for the sake of experimenting just doesn't make sense. Perhaps a Luthier could use the results of this project to draw some conclusions that would help him improve his building techniques, but I don't see how.
I'm not a luthier so excuse my ignorance.

Theo

[Tom West]

Originally Posted by GraceGuitars

Are you asking why he's building a guitar or why he's building it with this method?

Jon:
Asking what the advantages are of building by this method as compared to standard methods. I can't think of any but can come up with lots of disadvantages.
Tom

[murrmac123]

The fatal flaw in this project is the short grain in the sides adjacent to the neck block, and also the fact that the routing process, which leaves a 90 degree angle between the back and the (short-grained) sides creates a huge stress riser, the implications of which will become alarmingly apparent shortly after the guitar is strung up to pitch. Using a radius cutter to create a cove at the back sides intersection would have been slightly better, but probably not sufficiently so as to prevent the inevitable implosion .

Chambering an electric guitar is a totally different affair from constructing an acoustic in this fashion.

I do applaud the OP for his resourcefulness and ingenuity, but I have to say that this project is misguided in so many ways.

EDIT: jhony, I looked at Bill Gennaro's post above where he asks whether you had built a guitar in this fashion before. I am not sure from your response whether the answer is "yes" or "no". So can I ask you again ...have you built an acoustic guitar in a similar fashion to this before ?

[Gasworker]

Don't get discouraged jhony. You have had 637 looks so far with 23 posts and only a couple of mildly questionable comments. I for one am looking forward to your updates.
ps. Hydro poles are a waste of wood, this is a craftsman building something.

[Martin Keith]

Hi folks,

I won't weigh in personally on the pros and cons of this.
However, it's worth noting that at least one US maker is producing instruments this way (out of figured maple, no less!) and has been doing so successfully for a number of years:

http://phiferdesigns.com/thephifer.htm

Woody Phifer builds his archtops with "monolithic" (my word, not his) back/side/blocks, all carved from a single piece of material. He carves in stages to let the material relax and settle before targeting the finished shape.

Again, no value judgement from me on this - except to say that I have played Woody's guitars and was very surprised at the lightness and delicacy - not what I expected given the construction. They do NOT feel like big hunks of wood...they are as quick and responsive as a bent-side archtop.

For what it's worth, Woody also boasts George Benson as a prominent player of his guitars.

Anyway - there's more than one way to skin a cat. Given how much tropical forest gets burned or turned into paper to make farmland, I won't complain about someone using a few extra boardfeet to make a guitar. I've seen amazing Ziricote used as fenceposts in the Yucatan. I guess it works pretty welll for that.

Cheers,
Martin

[LouieAtienza]

For a community of artists and artisans, I sometimes wonder in disbelief as to how closed-minded people can be. Worse, having self-righteous persons impose their beliefs on others, and using said beliefs in a right/wrong scenario.

First off, we do not know the story behind these billets of wood. Second, judging from the end grain, I don't know if you'd get a high yield of suficiently quartered wood suitable for traditional construction. Third, if one has opinions on the project, they should say as such - I believe this technique is flawed, I don't think this makes sense - instead of saying things as matter-of-fact.

We don't know what jhony's resources are or what is or was available to him, and we don't have a finished guitar yet. Maybe we could sit back, watch, and decide in the end if the efforts were worthwhile.

[LouieAtienza]

Originally Posted by Martin Keith

Hi folks,

I won't weigh in personally on the pros and cons of this.
However, it's worth noting that at least one US maker is producing instruments this way (out of figured maple, no less!) and has been doing so successfully for a number of years:

http://phiferdesigns.com/thephifer.htm

Woody Phifer builds his archtops with "monolithic" (my word, not his) back/side/blocks, all carved from a single piece of material. He carves in stages to let the material relax and settle before targeting the finished shape.

Again, no value judgement from me on this - except to say that I have played Woody's guitars and was very surprised at the lightness and delicacy - not what I expected given the construction. They do NOT feel like big hunks of wood...they are as quick and responsive as a bent-side archtop.

For what it's worth, Woody also boasts George Benson as a prominent player of his guitars.

Anyway - there's more than one way to skin a cat. Given how much tropical forest gets burned or turned into paper to make farmland, I won't complain about someone using a few extra boardfeet to make a guitar. I've seen amazing Ziricote used as fenceposts in the Yucatan. I guess it works pretty welll for that.

Cheers,
Martin

The Taylor T5 is also made by hollowing out a billet of sapele; if I remember correctly the back is aboutu 1/4" or less. Also the top fully "floats", it is not a chambered electric but more of a "thinline" acoustic/electric.

Think of all the barns and furniture in Brazil made from our favorite tonewood. Here in the northeast, we use Douglas fir as framing wood. Obtaining quartersawn wood is probably one of the most inefficient ways of cutting a log; same with splitting a softwood billet for tops.

[murrmac123]

My adverse criticisms were in no way ecologically based, I have no "political" problem whatsoever with jhony using the billets in this way, I am simply observing that having short grain where the neck joint occurs is asking for trouble.

Phifer guitars and the Taylor T5 do NOT have a neck joint fashioned thus ... they are also thinline hybrid guitars ... a world of difference from jhony's project, which he is fashioning as a full flat-top acoustic.

[murrmac123]

It has occurred to me that some people may not understand what is meant by "short grain", and why it is so potentially disastrous in this particular project.

If so, then Google "short grain wood" , and all will become clear.