fingers going numb....

[jim_n_virginia]

For some time now I have had a problem of some of my fingers going numb occasionally on sometimes my fretting hand and sometimes my picking hand. It is usually not the whole hand but a few fingers, mostly the middle and ring fingers. Other than being annoying it usually isn't a problem because I can make it to the end of the song and just straightening my arm and opening and closing my fist a few times seems to get the blood flowing and I am fine in a few seconds.

Went to the doctor and he couldn't find anything wrong and so his diagnosis is poor hand and arm posture. So I started examining the way I hold a guitar.

I have been watching my music videos of different acoustic flatpickers and watching how various pickers hold their guitar. Seems there are about two ways pretty much.

One... you drape the arm over the guitar so that your arm rests on top of the lower bout. This causes you to pick more on the side of the sound hole closer to the fret board.

I own a dreadnaught guitar so the bigger bout jacks my arm high in the air and the corner of the lower bout cuts into my arm. I think THIS is what is slowing blood flow down my arm and causing the numbness.

The other way I have noticed that others players and hold their guitar is to reach around the end of the guitar and pick without a corner of the guitar pushing into your arm. Looks like this causes you to strum or pick nearer the bridge on the sound hole.

Of course neither of these positions explain why my fretting hand goes numb occasionally. Maybe I am fretting too hard, maybe bending my wrist a certain way.

In any case, I have been playing guitar for over 25 years so I don't even think about playing position. I'm thinking that for most of my life when my body was younger and better shape (circulation etc.) it didn't matter much how I held my guitar but now that I am getting older in my 40's maybe it does.

I am wondering if an armrest will help? Maybe get rid of the dread and get a smaller guitar? (hardly!) Maybe all I need to do is RE-train (easier SAID than done!) myself in the way I hold my guitar.

I am completely re-examining the way I hold my guitar (AND my mandolin). I want to be playing when I am 90... God willing!

I am wondering does anyone else have a problem with numbness? Any remedies? Ideas? Theories?

Are there any medical studies anywhere about the long-term effects of guitar playing?

[Jim Tozier]

Hi Jim,

I had the exact same problem with my right hand when I was playing fingerstyle on my dreads and jumbos; my forearm would rest against the edge of the lower bout, and after a few songs, my fingers would start to tingle.

I'm sure that bad posture had something to do with it, but I remedied the situation by switching to smaller guitars. I also switch between playing with the guitar on my right leg, and with it on the left leg in a pseudo-classical position. Standing up to play also seems to help.

This is the reason that the bevel on the Ryan Nightingale/Cathedral is such a cool innovation. Those guitars are comfortable!

One of the John Pearse armrests may help, as the edge of that is rounded in a way that should lessen the stress on your forearm--although it will also cause your arm to move slightly more away from your body to accomodate the extra thickness you've added to the top. Most of the players I've talked to who use an armrest say that they the extra width doesn't bother them, though.

I agree that you should try whatever it takes to address the issue; fingers going numb cannot be a good sign!

[picker@7]

I agree with Jim-get away from a dreadnaught and play something smaller. Borrow an x12 or x14 from someone and play it for a few days. I'll bet your problem is gone. Unless you are playing unplugged in a bluegrass setting, there is no need for a big guitar. Downsize, your arms and hands will thank you

[utah]

I was doing some home-recording a few months back and I was playing the same part over an over, for a few hours while I was putting the song together.

I noticed at the end, the tips of my second and third fingers had gone numb from the constant repetitive finger positioning. I've played guitar for 35 plus years, and this was the first time it had happened.

Since then, I've kept my playing to a minimum...playing drums when I jam, or bass. Just some guitar here and there. The fingers are mostly back to normal now, but I still can feel a teeny bit of numbness. I figured it was a repetitive strain of some type, and the best thing was to give the nerves a chance to recover by not playing guitar for a while.

[JW1111]

I have the same problem. Although mine starts in the shoulder, goes into the elbow and really hurts at the wrist. My problem is compounded by poor right hand positioning. I am slowly trying to correct it but that is easier said than done. I play jumbos and am going to switch to a smaller body for playin live and sitting down. It is worse when sitting down. The reverse cross leg tip does help. But if makes me feel like I am going to fall off my chair.

It is a big problem while writing and recording, when i tend to tense up and repeat things over and over, so to eleviate it I record and write standing up with a strap.

It is also much worse when my house is cold. So i try to keep it at 72 degrees while playing for long periods at a time.

I think the short neck taylor is a good idea, because you have to reach less. Also, try down -tuning and capoing-up so the strings have less tension, are easier to push down. With a shorter neck your left arm does not have to reach so far, which can cause a loss of circulation in your right arm. It does not seem like it makes sense to suggest that you can make it easier for the left hand to ultimately make it easier for the right, but it does. At least it does for me.

Bottom line is if you have a perfect fit guitar and perfect classical right hand technique then everything, in theory, should work. But who does?

[Yoder]

Yup, had the same problem with my right hand. Pinched nerve caused by a herniated disc. Your disc may not be shot, but chances are you are playing at an odd angle that is causing pinced nerves. Stick your fingers as far up into your arm pit as you can (the arm pit that the numb fingers is on.) If you get real deep into it, and you feel pain, then you are suffering from "throacic outlet syndrome."

I would start working on your posture. Do some yoga, Pilates, etc. If it continues go see a doctor. I alternate the way I play. When am reading music from a book I will put it on my left, and then on my right--just to keep my body from locking up in one fixed position.

[utah]

That may be true...
but are there people that can jam their fingers deep into their arm-pits and not feel pain?

I'm just curious...

[LittleBrother]

Same here and these things fix it for me...

> Non Dreadnought guitar. Big is not the issue but thick is...

> Posture of my back as well as my arm and shoulders

> A neck profile that fits and fills my hand especially if I have to squeeze to far for too long. Fatter neck actually helped.

> Playing the same old licks and settling into the same positions and licks all the time

[Roncat]

I was diagnosed with carpal tunnel syndrm about 12 years ago. I've never had surgery but opted to do stretches every day. Especialy before playing. It works for me most of the time. I'm 55. Getting older and although I know more I sure miss the reflexes and dexterity I once had. I have a couple of dreadnaughts and a 814ce Taylor. I can play my Taylor for hours and hours without fatigue but like you, the shape of the Dred
is just not comfortable sitting (the only way I play). Get a book on proper streches and try it. It can't hurt and I bet it helps. I think the majority of people who have worked with their hands have some degree of carpal tunnel. Hope you find a solution. To me playing the guitar is heaven here on earth. Good luck.

[outsidenote]

Middle and ring fingers sensation are supplied by the medial nerve and by spinal chord segments C6 and 7. Problems with sensation on the finger tips can be traced to problems anywhere along the length of the nerve from a disc prolapse in your neck or a spinal chord problem like syringomyelia (uncommon - usually also have leg weakness), or local pressure on the nerve in the thoracic outlet or you guitars lower bout, or at the carpal tunnel, etc.

If this is a recurrent problem but only occurs while playing guitar, you probably have an entrapment issue like carpal tunnel syndrome. If it happens at other times you may have something else. The diagnosis can be made by nerve conduction studies which are usually performed by a neurologist.

Carpal tunnel syndrome can be treated with surgery, physiotherapy or splints.

[astrummer]

Originally Posted by Roncat

Get a book on proper streches and try it. It can't hurt and I bet it helps. .

I'll second that....
I had some experience with tingling/numbness and regular targeted stretching did the trick for me.

[wthurman]

I had that problem with my left hand, but it was a pinched nerve in my neck... there's a nerve that runs down and affects the thumb and first and second fingers, and the ring finger a little. It was caused by a fall I took on the steps years ago, and the resulting calcification that showed up years later.

You might try neck stretching and rotation... as odd as that sounds. In other words, along with other things, hunker down a your neck less when playing. All the other suggestions are good, but this is something you might take a look at, too, just as an aside.

Take care,

Wade

[jim_n_virginia]

Thanks everybody for the suggestions.

Jim T. you might be right, it might be time to look at smaller body guitars but I do play unplugged at bluegrass jams (going tonight) so I do need a dread for that but I am thinking maybe keep the dread for bluegrass and another smaller guitar for everthing else. WOULD BE A GOOD EXCUSE FOR ANOTHER GUITAR!

The doc did say I might have carpal tunnel syndrome as I have worked off and on as a carpenter for many years and thats a lot of slamming with a hammer.

I hate to do anything invasive (who does right?) like surgery so I am going to try some concentrated exercise and stretching for my hands and see what happens.

Thanks again everybody.

It SUCKS getting old!

[rhudson]

Originally Posted by outsidenote

Middle and ring fingers sensation are supplied by the medial nerve and by spinal chord segments C6 and 7. Problems with sensation on the finger tips can be traced to problems anywhere along the length of the nerve from a disc prolapse in your neck or a spinal chord problem like syringomyelia (uncommon - usually also have leg weakness), or local pressure on the nerve in the thoracic outlet or you guitars lower bout, or at the carpal tunnel, etc.

If this is a recurrent problem but only occurs while playing guitar, you probably have an entrapment issue like carpal tunnel syndrome. If it happens at other times you may have something else. The diagnosis can be made by nerve conduction studies which are usually performed by a neurologist.

Carpal tunnel syndrome can be treated with surgery, physiotherapy or splints.

This is the advice that should be heeded in my opinion.

[jazzinthebox]

I do not disagree that this situation could very well be a symptom of something serious, and its better to see a doctor about it than to let it go unchecked. On the other hand, I have spoken to so many guitarists who have experienced this exact symptom, including myself, that I feel it would be safe to deduce that in most cases this is nothing more than an annoyance. The odds just don't seem too great that we all have spinal cord problems, or even CTS for that matter. Better to be safe than sorry, though, and it never hurts to see a doctor, which you have already done.