Resources for Room Acoustics...

[alohachris]

Aloha Chipotle,

In Honolulu. we are so far away from everywhere that we are used to special ordering everything.

I ordered my OC 703 2"x2'x4' through a local acoustic materials supply house, AMS (Acoustic Materials Services). By ordering through a local supplier, shipping costs were defrayed. OC 703 is the "not-so" rigid fiberglass you want & that pro studio's use. Why use anything else, IMO?

They come 6 or 12 to a box. It's been a long time since I last ordered, but back then they cost between $100-150 per box including shipping out here. You double them up so keep that in mind for how many you wish to order.

Use Fran's instructional DIY video to see how to make them. Always use gloves & a safety mask when handling or around uncovered OC 703. I was able to build them outdoors - so no issues.

You can really make them look nice even decorative & BE SAFE by covering them with attractive cloth material (using hot melt glue on the seam & corners & spray glue for the larger surfaces - Loctite 200 or 300 were my fav's). I covered with a durable, nice glossy burlap that was on sale at Walmart - neutral but not too rough looking. I've seen some that were almost fashion statements - Ha! You need to cover the rigid fiberglass panels to keep particles from becoming airborne.

I made 22 of them in three increments for around & above my tracking area where I record, for around & above my editing desk, and also for the room itself in the corners (floor to ceiling) as bass traps.

Because the finished, rectangular absorbers are 4" thick, they are free standing (almost) & once I spaced them around where I tracked, I used pieces of hard wire to connect them & increase stability. I just jammed it into the panels. I made nine panels at first: two in front of the mic's, two behind me, two on each side, & one suspended above me - a portable 'room within a room' effect. You can change the spacing of the panels to let more or less room into the mix, Chipotle.

I can't play, sing or record anymore, so now I lend my absorbers out to players (most acoustic) doing recording. They always work, no matter what project or space they're used. In fact, I often have a difficult time getting them returned.

Don't hesitate, Chipotle. Find 'em. Build them, meter your space (got mine at Radio Shack) to find out where they're needed. Set 'em in place. Store out of the way as needed. It's that simple. DIY will save you a lot of money, provide studio results, & maximize your gear.

It makes all the difference in achieving clear home recordings. Sorry guys about all the extra info I provided here. I just want players/home recordists to really understand how big a difference Room Treatment makes & how easy & cheaper it is to DIY.

Good Luck!

alohachris

PS: GIF products are expensive, iMO. If you've got the bucks go for it. Just treat! -alohachris-

[MikeBmusic]

Originally Posted by Chipotle

For those who DIY'ed... where did you get the insulation (Roxul rockwool, OC703 etc.)? It's not available retail, commercial suppliers may want a very large order (or not sell to you at all), if buying online the shipping cost can double the price you pay, wiping out a lot of the DIY savings.

ATS: https://www.atsacoustics.com/

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by MikeBmusic

ATS: https://www.atsacoustics.com/

Oh, it's available. But OC703 4" 3-pack, $84... shipping $65. By the time you add frame, fabric, fasteners etc. for DIY, the gap between DIY and pre-made narrows considerably. I may just go with Doug's advice for pre-made, and leave more time to actually use my studio.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Chipotle

Oh, it's available. But OC703 4" 3-pack, $84... shipping $65. By the time you add frame, fabric, fasteners etc. for DIY, the gap between DIY and pre-made narrows considerably. I may just go with Doug's advice for pre-made, and leave more time to actually use my studio.

Yes as someone mentioned I would think for DIY, Rockwool brand (formerly Roxul )Safe and Sound, will be much cheaper you can order a single vacuum bag of 8 pieces of 24 by 48 from any "Do It Best" lumber supply stores for about $65 or Lowes or if not in your area I would think Amazon would have it also

If you are going pre made I can recommend GIK

[keith.rogers]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Yes as someone mentioned I would think for DIY, Rockwool brand (formerly Roxul )Safe and Sound, will be much cheaper you can order a single vacuum bag of 8 pieces of 24 by 48 from any "Do It Best" lumber supply stores for about $65 or Lowes or if not in your area I would think Amazon would have it also

If you are going pre made I can recommend GIK

The 15" wide [12] pack is in stock locally at one of the Lowe's - it's what I used. The 24" wide variety ships free to the store. I'd probably get that if I was doing it over, and I might be if we move, but 24 batts of the narrower stuff (designed for between stud use) has pretty well covered my needs.

Building your own will save you money, but don't kid yourself, the "stuffing" is really the smaller part of the cost. Between wood, screws and even cheap fabric, you'll rack up a few hundred $ quickly. And, you do really need a good miter saw and power drill/screw-driver to do this reasonably quickly. But then, you'll have a couple dozen single thickness or half that many double thick/wide panels for the cost of a few pre-made ones. If you are treating the room for mixing full band stuff, you need good bass traps (IMO) in addition to broadband treatment. That won't be cheap. (Quick look at GIK and I'd have spent on just bass traps what I spent for everything in my room.)

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Rockwool brand (formerly Roxul )Safe and Sound,

From what I've read, Safe 'n' Sound is different than Roxul 40/60/80 or OC703--cheaper and available retail, not as good for broadband absorption but okay for bass traps if you make it thick enough (like 6").

But I didn't know that Roxul changed their brand name to Rockwool. I did find a supplier that carries Rockwool right near where I work. Maybe I'll stop in and see if they'll humor me. Saving hundreds in shipping costs definitely changes the DIY calculus.

[keith.rogers]

Originally Posted by Chipotle

From what I've read, Safe 'n' Sound is different than Roxul 40/60/80 or OC703--cheaper and available retail, not as good for broadband absorption but okay for bass traps if you make it thick enough (like 6").

But I didn't know that Roxul changed their brand name to Rockwool. I did find a supplier that carries Rockwool right near where I work. Maybe I'll stop in and see if they'll humor me. Saving hundreds in shipping costs definitely changes the DIY calculus.

Safe'n'Sound may be slightly less dense, but in that it comes in 3" thicknesses, it's plenty for broadband use. At least on paper, it compares pretty well to OC 703, though the faced (FRK) version beats it out.

https://cdn01.rockwool.com/siteasset...20190515124445

http://commercial.owenscorning.com/a...c7419d1e31.pdf

Personally, I did not find working with Safe'n'Sound (a rock-wool product) as irritating as any kind of fiberglass I've ever come in contact with, but I have not used OC 703 FRK.

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Yes as someone mentioned I would think for DIY, Rockwool brand (formerly Roxul )Safe and Sound, will be much cheaper you can order a single vacuum bag of 8 pieces of 24 by 48 from any "Do It Best" lumber supply stores for about $65 or Lowes or if not in your area I would think Amazon would have it also

If you are going pre made I can recommend GIK

I ordered mine from a "Do It Best" lumber supply, but I got the Roxul Rockboard 80. After ordering it I found I could have gotten it a bit cheaper from a commercial insulation company that also would sell direct to the public. It's denser than the "Safe and Sound" and the OC 0703, and attenuation at lower frequencies is better. It's 8 lbs per square foot and came in 2' x 4' x 2" panels. I made all my gobo with 4" depth.

[alohachris]

Aloha Chipotle,

How are you going to use or mount sound treatment in your space? How do you envision your studio layout? Will your treatment be permanent? How many DIY absorbers will you start out building or requiring?

No matter the answers to those questions, if you go to the trouble of building anything, don't go with lesser Room Treatment materials than OC703.

For great reasons, Pro studio's do not use Roxul, Rockwool, Safe 'n Sound, egg crates, or moving blankets for that matter for studio treatment - nothing other than OC703. Many of your peers here have had no problem creating the room treatment they needed using OC703. If I could get OC703 all the way to Hawaii, then it's certainly available to you. Same for the ease of building them.

In terms of expense, if you're not building a permanent studio space, then start off building 2-4 broadband absorbers (per Fran's video above). Move them around as needed, starting w/ your tracking space. Check my comments above for clues if that's your route. And PM me if you have questions about how I did it.

AND buy the 2"x2'x4' OC703 panels & double them up to 4" thickness - cheaper & more common than the manufactured
4" panels.

The way I look at it, GIF & other manufactured gobos are really expensive ($800 the last I looked) compared to DIY. That's a fact. You need treatment, period, or recording is a waste of time, gear & money, IMO. The cost of the OC703 for a few start-up DIY panels is minimal when compared to the few GIF gobo's you'd need for the same coverage. The cost of building materials - all from Walmart or Lowe's - is small - see Fran's materials list in his DIY video above.

Building wood frames around DIY absorbers defeats the whole purpose - creating more hard surfaces to deal with. Don't frame them out if you don't need to.

Because Room Treatment is so unsexy compared to the gear, players hesitate to spend money on it or save it for last. It should be your first investment. DIY will give you several panels for the cost of a couple average affordable vocal mic's. You can add more as needed - push the expense down the road & get started recording with the real deal OC703 right now - taming those room reflections that kill acoustic recordings & make mid-range mud. Even if you record to a Zoom, IMO. you need treatment for the best results, even a simple mono guitar track!

Again, if you're building anything, Chipotle, then build with the best- OC 703 - especially for recording, right. A studio & the recording process by nature are fairly expensive & ongoing - if you want the best result. Start with spending for appropriate room treatment for your space & musical ambitions & requirements. And save lotsa money & take the doubt out with the DIY process with resources described above. Put the savings into great mic-pre combo's or your signal chain. Don't you want to create your best recordings?

When I built my absorbers 3X over three years, I had almost no time available in my life for building anything, working day & night. So I dedicated a weekend at a time to each build. I got faster with experience so it took a lot less time than I thought. I built 9, then 7, then 6 absorbers - 22 in all - & not hard to make at all a few hours at a time. Build them as time & money allow.

That was 15 years ago. My absorbers still work well at taming/enhancing the sound (and are still free-standing) in every space I've taken them to. Build your own DIY broadband absorbers with OC703, Chipotle. Your recordings & ears will be glad you went with the best.

alohachris

[Doug Young]

I agree with Chris that it depends on what you want to do. I'd be very tempted if doing it all over to just buy stuff from GIK, or ATS. Yes, pricier, but nice looking and easy. On the other hand, what I did was build stuff in. My entire ceiling is solid 703. Corners are thick triangles of 703, permanently installed. Panels that hang on the wall are detachable and become free-standing gobos. So a combination of permanently built in, and sort of customized to what I thought I'd need (I've actually only used the panels as gobos once or twice in a decade...)

On the other hand, I spent 6 months of nearly every night and weekend on a ladder, hammering, nailing, sawing, and coughing up 703 fibers, instead of playing guitar. Glad that time's far behind me... (to be fair, tho, there was a lot more to do than just the acoustic treatment)

[keith.rogers]

Hmm, well, audio waves respond to the laws of physics, so I am going to suggest that it doesn't matter what the brand is or actually the material is, so long as the measured results show that the trapping is effective.

It's a bit of hyperbole to suggest that pro studios have only ever used OC 703 (I guess that was after they stopped using asbestos), or to lump rockwool products together with egg crates (BS). While I know OC703 is fine, the physical properties of the Rockboard line will do the same thing, and even us poor bumblers who had to use Safe'n'Sound can prove it's effective (as well as inexpensive and available).

Folks with home studios are constrained by finances, and that frequently limits our access to some of the same materials that might be common in pro studios, i.e., those places which also sport a single mic costing more than all of our equipment added together, perhaps, all in large, engineered spaces. And, miraculously, but not impossibly, some folks record and mix in places that do not have OC 703 stickers on their acoustic panels.

In short (OP), I would focus on how to get the amount (depth and area) of material in your space to achieve an overall trapping (measurable) however it works best.

[MikeBmusic]

Yes, the shipping charges from ATS really add up.
ATS gives you the absorption #s here: https://www.atsacoustics.com/page--S...erial--ac.html

I bought the ROXUL AFB 2", doubled it up for my traps. Half the price of 703 and absorption numbers seem to be better/as good comparing 2" vs 2".
I used ROXUL Safe n Sound for my ceiling cloud panels (which are now point-of-first-reflection panels in my new room). If you double it up to 6" you should get decent absorption, but SnS is not on the ATS page.

It took me less than 2 hours to build my first 6 traps. Its pretty simple - cut the wood for the frames, screw them together, put the frame on the cloth (I used burlap), put insulation in the frame, wrap cloth around, pull tight, staple in place.

[Halcyon/Tinker]

Thanks, lots of good info here.

I seem to recall from treating my present room that the 703 was pretty hard to get in Canada. But I was able to special order bundles of Roxul 80 which had pretty similar absorption numbers iirc. Sure worked well anyway.