Elliot Capo VS. Shubb Fine Tune

[EZYPIKINS]

I wonder. How many of you actually use a capo on stage. Putin on taking off in the middle of a set. in front of an audience.
I hate down time between songs. I'm not much of a speaker. As I am a singer.
For me speed wise I can position a Kyser, mute my tuner, tune to pitch, and play.
Faster than I can carefully position my Shubb and hope it's in tune.
If you can set a capo and actually expect it to not throw your tune out a bit. Your only fooling yourself.
If playing solo, You may get away with it. But if you are playing with others.
Your tune will be fighting others tune. Train wreck.
I have learned over the years that, I may not be able to control allot of variables. ( I can only play as good as I can play ).
But those I can control, I want as good as possible.
Why would you play anything in front of people, that doesn't sound good. No matter how much you may like it.
Put the capo on. Tune and go.

[hubcapsc]

One note regarding Elliot capos and intonation: they are made for a specific fretboard radius

Per Elliott you can adjust the bar to increase or decrease the Radius. They will instruct how

I just bought my Elliott over the counter without thinking about radius.

I have to "fiddle" with it to make it right on both base and treble. I was
listening to a recording I made the other day and it sounds like I didn't
fiddle with the treble quite enough...

Anywho... I've been wondering recently about radius, and can see ads
on the Internet about Elliotts for specific radii .. I'll have to ask them for
instructions ...

I actually have two Elliotts... the newest one had the "pop-off" problem
bobster7 mentioned with his shubb... I contacted Elliott in email, they
told me to squeeze it while off the guitar to reshape it a little which
fixed it 100%...

-Mike

[musicman1951]

Originally Posted by EZYPIKINS

If you can set a capo and actually expect it to not throw your tune out a bit. Your only fooling yourself.

Why would you play anything in front of people, that doesn't sound good. No matter how much you may like it.
Put the capo on. Tune and go.

That's the whole point for me, I absolutely know the Kyser will require tuning, and then tuning again when I take it off.

My Elliott does not require tuning on the first 5 frets, and I can't remember the last time I used it higher than that. Trust me, I've got over-educated ears.

[Brent Hutto]

Originally Posted by musicman1951

That's the whole point for me, I absolutely know the Kyser will require tuning, and then tuning again when I take it off.

My Elliott does not require tuning on the first 5 frets, and I can't remember the last time I used it higher than that. Trust me, I've got over-educated ears.

I only play at home by myself so it wouldn't matter much if my capo required retuning. But I have a Kat Eyz (similar concept to Elliott) which was ordered to match the exact radius of my guitar at the 3rd fret and it does not require any retuning at all most of the time. At the very worst one string might need to be touched up a couple of cents, which I can only say for sure if I check with my strobe tuner.

Having one of these very petite capos with the surgical rubber tubing and matching the fretboard radius works so well I sometimes wonder why anyone settles for some other style.

I've gotten used to the ideal positioning behind the fret where all six strings quit buzzing at the same point of turning the screw (with very minimal pressure) and I know from feel exactly how tight that is. Nothing goes out of the tune and while I can't say it has zero effect on tone it has less effect on the tone of the guitar than other capos I've used (and much less than my fingers).

It just works so well it's a pleasure to use.

P.S. I am almost always capo'ing at the 2nd or 3rd, occasionally the 5th fret. If I go higher than that the radius of my fretboard changes and there is more adjustment needed. But I basically only have gone up that high just to see how the capo works.

[Kenny B]

So my question for you all.... those who have the Elliot or similar Heritage capo... they advertise that you can leave on the guitar by moving it past the nut. Does anyone actually use it that way? Does that weigh down the guitar neck to feel differently? Is this a viable option or too much trouble?

And also to those with this type of capo, is it a hassle to remove or put on? I mean, compared to a G7 Art or other capo. Can it be put on quickly? thanks...

[hubcapsc]

I learned about Elliott capos down at my local bluegrass oriented
guitar shop. They all do it that way. If I was on-stage or jamming
out a lot, I bet I would too.

Not taking it on and off = not losing it ...

-Mike

Originally Posted by Kenny B

So my question for you all.... those who have the Elliot or similar Heritage capo... they advertise that you can leave on the guitar by moving it past the nut. Does anyone actually use it that way? Does that weigh down the guitar neck to feel differently? Is this a viable option or too much trouble?

And also to those with this type of capo, is it a hassle to remove or put on? I mean, compared to a G7 Art or other capo. Can it be put on quickly? thanks...

[phcorrigan]

Originally Posted by Kenny B

So my question for you all.... those who have the Elliot or similar Heritage capo... they advertise that you can leave on the guitar by moving it past the nut. Does anyone actually use it that way? Does that weigh down the guitar neck to feel differently? Is this a viable option or too much trouble?

And also to those with this type of capo, is it a hassle to remove or put on? I mean, compared to a G7 Art or other capo. Can it be put on quickly? thanks...

I have a Paige and a G7th Heritage.

Because of the design of the neck on my HD-28V I can't put it behind the nut. I just put it in my shirt pocket, along with my picks.

It takes a little more time to put it on and take it off, but not having to retune compensates for that.

[Brent Hutto]

Originally Posted by Kenny B

So my question for you all.... those who have the Elliot or similar Heritage capo... they advertise that you can leave on the guitar by moving it past the nut. Does anyone actually use it that way? Does that weigh down the guitar neck to feel differently? Is this a viable option or too much trouble?

My Kat Eyz weighs very little and I can not feel it changing the balance much, even on my very lightweight guitar.

I use my so infrequently I don't keep it on there normally. But if I'm going to be working on a capo'd tune for a few days I'll leave it above the nut for as long as I'm likely to need it. But then after a few days I might not use it again for a month.

And also to those with this type of capo, is it a hassle to remove or put on? I mean, compared to a G7 Art or other capo. Can it be put on quickly? thanks...

If you get the style of Elliott with the pushbutton then no IMO it's no hassle at all to put on and take off.

Ming has the tiny little flip-down "bail" to hold it close and yes, that's a slight hassle. Not for putting it on so much as it takes me 5-10 seconds to use my fingernails to flip it down to remove the capo.

[Rick Shepherd]

Regarding the Shubb Fine Tune: The rubber tubing on the bar doesn’t look very thick, and I am unsure of it’s radius. So, if the radius is different than my guitar fretboard radius, which I am unable to find any info about on their website, it makes me nervous to buy one. The rubber tubing is different than the rubber pad on I’ll other Shubb capos, and doesn’t seem as thick and able to accommodate different neck radii as easily.

I have a Ryan Nightingale with a fifteen inch fretboard radius. I bought the G7th Heritage to try. The only issue I have with it is not the fretboard radius, but it doesn’t seat itself very well on the back of the neck. The contour of the neck of the Nightingale is kind of flat at the center, so the pad makes contact with the neck in two places, not a good fit for that neck shape, but it works, just seems a bit unstable.

The standard Shubb steel string capo doesn’t work on my Ryan Nightingale, it isn’t wide enough. Their wider 12/string capo doesn’t work very well either, pops off without being able to lock down properly. I have a couple older 12-string Shubbs that do work alright, and they don’t have the rolling wheel part.

So far, I haven’t found a really good-fitting capo for my Ryan, so I may have to try an Elliott The u-shaped neck support brace looks longer/wider than the G7th, and maybe it will fit better. Also, I like that Elliott can increase the width for a wider neck for when you move the capo up the fretboard.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Rick Shepherd

I have a Ryan Nightingale with a fifteen inch fretboard radius. I bought the G7th Heritage to try. The only issue I have with it is not the fretboard radius, but it doesn’t seat itself very well on the back of the neck. The contour of the neck of the Nightingale is kind of flat at the center, so the pad makes contact with the neck in two places, not a good fit for that neck shape, but it works, just seems a bit unstable.

Interesting. Does your Ryan have an extra-wide nut? I have a standard-width G7 Heritage on my Nightingale right now, so I just checked it. Seems to fit like a glove. I'd think Kevin's neck profiles would be quite consistent. Something different about yours? I think I've seen what you mean on some other guitars tho.

[Yrksman]

Originally Posted by EZYPIKINS

I wonder. How many of you actually use a capo on stage. Putin on taking off in the middle of a set. in front of an audience.
I hate down time between songs. I'm not much of a speaker. As I am a singer.
For me speed wise I can position a Kyser, mute my tuner, tune to pitch, and play.
Faster than I can carefully position my Shubb and hope it's in tune.
If you can set a capo and actually expect it to not throw your tune out a bit. Your only fooling yourself.
If playing solo, You may get away with it. But if you are playing with others.
Your tune will be fighting others tune. Train wreck.
I have learned over the years that, I may not be able to control allot of variables. ( I can only play as good as I can play ).
But those I can control, I want as good as possible.
Why would you play anything in front of people, that doesn't sound good. No matter how much you may like it.
Put the capo on. Tune and go.

I’ve been performing since 1969 and have always used a capo. The arrival of the original Shubb was life changing for a very small cost. I have a ton of those and the deluxe version which I still use. The Fine Tune, Elliot and G7th Heritage take things just a little further. I can’t recall ever having an audience complaining about delays between songs. A lot of the stuff I do would be impossible without them.

[keith.rogers]

Originally Posted by EZYPIKINS

I wonder. How many of you actually use a capo on stage. Putin on taking off in the middle of a set. in front of an audience.
I hate down time between songs. I'm not much of a speaker. As I am a singer.
For me speed wise I can position a Kyser, mute my tuner, tune to pitch, and play.
Faster than I can carefully position my Shubb and hope it's in tune.
If you can set a capo and actually expect it to not throw your tune out a bit. Your only fooling yourself.
....

Well, when I was playing out a bit, I always have a capo on, at least since getting one of the yoke-style capos that I keep on the guitar all the time. And, while I probably hear well enough, and, TBH, live venues are not like when you're recording, so you really do have to balance tuning perfection vs. keeping the audience engaged.

The advent of ubiquitous, cheap, accurate digital tuners has made the process of moving the (already on the neck) capo and checking/tweaking tuning something that takes no more than a few seconds, i.e., as long as, we hope, saying thanks for the applause and introducing the song. But, really, I feel like the yoke capos are right there with the original Shubb designs, since they can be a very good match to the fingerboard and tension can be applied "just so" to achieve the appropriate pressure with minimal, or "live gig negligible" tuning impact.

But, there's a reason why there are so many kinds of capos, so to each their own, YMMV, etc.

[Robin, Wales]

Well I have a cheap Paige Original (new version) and it lives permanently on my guitar on the nut. I don't think that it takes more than just a few seconds to move it, and it holds the tuning really well right up the fretboard. As a quick test, I have just recorded it being played from the 1st fret to the 9th and then moved behind the nut. No retuning, a one take wonder in real time.

I really don't think that I could expect any more from a capo.

[Silly Moustache]

Hi folks, I'm late to the party, but intrigued.

For many (many many) years I've used the basic Shubb C1 style capos - got one for each guitar, assuming that's as good as it gets.

I habitually "sweeten" my tuning in my own way - I check the tuning of the G on 6th string, the B on the 5th and the G on the 1st and the D on the 2nd.
The G and D strings aren't sweetened. That's for playing in 1st position.(In other words the notes of a bluegrass G).

As I mostly play out of G or C shapes open and capoed, that seems to work.

However, with a capo, (usu. on 2nd or 4th frets, I do expect to make minor adjustments (as I tell my students - that's what the applause time is for).

I've picked up some knowledge over the years about how these guitar things work, although I've never thought much about fretboard radii and don't know what the radiuses of my various guitars (Collings DS,00, Waterloo, Santa Cruz RS, Eastmans, are - or how to learn them.

Q1. Would someone advise me?

I'm also confused about compound radiuses on the same fretboard.

Q2. Again, would someone explain this to me?

I've always supposed that one needed to accept that variables like string diameter, fret height, amount of pressure exerted by both capo AND personal playing pressure need adjustment to get a capoed guitar in tune .... so ...

(Q3) ... do these posher capos of which you speak really obviate all adjustment apart from tuning at the 1st position?

Q4. - What about 12 strings?

Note : I've never sought to keep a capo above the nut, don't want that.

I used to have a Paige but gave it away as the only way I could undo the clip was to pick/poke it with my right hand thumb nail - which for a finger-picker is kinda valuable.

Do these posh capos of which we speak obviate this?

Ta ever so.

[Rick Shepherd]

I noticed Shubb uses the black rubber pad now on the Fine Tune capo, so that is nice to know!

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Interesting. Does your Ryan have an extra-wide nut? I have a standard-width G7 Heritage on my Nightingale right now, so I just checked it. Seems to fit like a glove. I'd think Kevin's neck profiles would be quite consistent. Something different about yours? I think I've seen what you mean on some other guitars tho.

Hi Doug,

My Ryan has a standard nut width. Here is a picture of it:



Ryan's neck profile is unique, more flat in the center as you can see here. Is your neck different?



Rick