Struggling w/barre chords/hand strength

[shekie]

Finally had some time to watch Larry's videos, they were most informative. Three things I learned tonight:

1. Placing the first finger somewhat diagonally across instead of perpendicular to the fret.

2. The first finger is pressed down from the side, not directly from the fleshy center.

3. The thumb is pressed against the neck slightly behind the first finger, not directly opposite.

Thank you, Larry!

I also misspoke in my initial post that playing the shorter scale Martin was no easier than the longer scale Taylor. I practiced barre chords this evening on the Martin, and it really is easier on the shorter scale. I'm still lousy, but somewhat less lousy on the Martin. The action is actually slightly higher on the Martin and the nut width is the same on both, but as SFCRetired and Marshall suggested, it was easier on the shorter scale.

Thank you to all who took the time to respond!

[samcatluth]

Couple of suggestions:
1. Tune the guitar down one half step.
2. Try silk/steel strings, they are easier on the hands. Jeff B

[Jim Owen]

Hi Shekie,
It takes practice. You're asking the hand to do something that it doesn't do normally; so it's natural that you'll have to build a little bit of muscle. The thumb is integral to the process, and you'll find just the right amount of pressure.

All of us were lousy at this when we started. Trust me on that.

[MuddyDitch]

The joints in my index finger make barre chords painful, especially sideways torque. Breaking them down to partial chords or triads or using a thumb on the bass strings is how I work around them. YMMV.

[SFCRetired]

Glad to see you got some pointers that help. Larry knows what he's talking about. Being self taught I struggled with barre chords myself so I stayed away from them for years. I still don't have them mastered like many or most people do, but to be honest what I play doesn't use a lot of them. I can make them all, I'm just not real fast at changes on some of them. So I try to find songs I like that uses some of them on occasion so I can get better.

[BrunoBlack]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Hi Shekie…

After 40 years of teaching, I can tell you it's not strength but other things which affect barre chord play. If the action is set decently (not too high) and the

Here are three short (about 1 minute each) videos I made for students and friends. Old school video technology, but they still help get the info across.

I have them both embedded so you can play them from this page, and the link for each is included below it.



Where is the Pressure? - CLiCK



Barre From Above and Behind - CLiCK



Barre from Front - CLiCK

Hope these help…

These are excellent Larry. I'm not a very good guitar instructor and these really helped my son, who is just picking up the guitar for the first time and patiently letting me try to help him.

Thanks,
Paul

[jaybones]

At your age, you might be losing muscle strength. I recomend one of these, when I first started playing, I used one all the time.

http://www.amazon.com/Gripmaster-Exe...nger+exerciser

I'd also recomend lighter strings, detuning, the videos and also making sure you're arching your fingers across the frets. Wear your guitar higher if need be, and try and get the neck 45 degrees to your body. Keep the elbow loose and and hanging straight down from the wrist, which should also be loosely bent over a little. Arch your fingers over the fretboard, which should make your index finger as straight as possible.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by jaybones

At your age, you might be losing muscle strength.

Hi j-b…

I don't find muscle strength to be the factor which makes barre chords better. We have no muscles in our fingers to strengthen. Barres are not a strength technique/maneuver when a guitar is well setup. And the squeeze strengtheners cause us to tense, not relax, our forearm/hand, which is detrimental to all playing (relaxed playing is best).

Lighter strings, detuning, lowering action are three things I've used with aging students who have suffered deterioration, injury or surgery. Those are valid techniques.

I'm not a licensed therapist, so if they are involved in physical therapy to restore normal use of hand/arm/wrist/elbows/shoulder use after surgery, physical deterioration or injury, I ask them to share with the therapist about their guitar playing. Barre chords are not the only focus of their concerns. It affects many other aspects of playing guitar.

Posture (how one holds the guitar while playing) goes a long way toward solving barre chord issues. Not playing left knee style, but elevating the neck which in essence rotates the body. Raising the neck so the headstock is at least chin high, brings the first position playing closer to the body and eliminates dropping the shoulder and cranking the fretting wrist. It straightens and relaxes the fretting wrist.

Elevating the neck changes the angle of both fretting and strumming/picking hands. It is more ergonomic, and relaxes much of the playing. Some people accomplish straightening out the fretting wrist by dropping their left shoulder, which if they just sat up straight would elevate the neck.

After teaching fingerstyle for over 40 years, I'm pretty familiar with how we address issues which confront players, of which barre chords is probably one of the biggest hurdles at the start, and it becomes invisible in short order.

[CaffeinatedOne]

Here's an idea to consider.

Mastering barre chording will take time and requires an understanding of your body geometry to make best use of your arm leverage and so forth. I agree that the barre is usually best accomplished with the side of the forefinger, mostly because it puts the other fingers in an advantageous position to fret the remaining notes, but also because it allows you to leverage your arm and shoulder strength, instead of putting all the force on your wrist and hand muscles.

But there's another aspect that can help you with this method, and that is context. When you understand why you're reaching for a barre instead of for individual or smaller combinations of the notes, you will tend to go into "do what must be done" mode and somehow it becomes easier to accomplish.

I have trouble with some barre chords and alternatively, I'll play the three note combinations - short chords if you will - when accompanying someone else in a rhythm role. So, for instance, Bm can be accessed instantly by using an Am form, only with the last three fingers of your left hand to allow for a barre with the forefinger. Just don't do the barre yet. Nail the chord with the last three fingers and don't strum all six strings. You'll be building muscle memory for the chord itself independently of the barre. When you want to add the barre, you need not change anything else at all to do it. So this gets you partway down the road very quickly and does not interfere with the later addition of the barre with the forefinger.

[shekie]

Felt compelled to drag this thread up regarding Larry J's advice and accompanying videos.

I've spent a considerable amount of time practicing placing my index finger diagonally across the fret board and applying pressure from the side of my index finger rather than the fleshy front part, and paying attention to thumb placement, slightly behind my index finger instead of directly opposite.

My barre chording is vastly improved from last October, so a big thank you to Larry!

[Wyllys]

Originally Posted by shekie

Felt compelled to drag this thread up regarding Larry J's advice and accompanying videos.

I've spent a considerable amount of time practicing placing my index finger diagonally across the fret board and applying pressure from the side of my index finger rather than the fleshy front part, and paying attention to thumb placement, slightly behind my index finger instead of directly opposite.

My barre chording is vastly improved from last October, so a big thank you to Larry!

One thing that didn't get mentioned in the original batch of advice is the function of the depth of the neck. As you can see by my signature, I prefer a real "handful" of neck on my guitar. A deeper, fuller neck will give more leverage with less effort.

[Ditch]

I can tell you Larry's video's were a huge help for me. Also having the actioned lowered. For me I think my issue was my thumb placement. Keep at it, it will come.

[Trevor B.]

The only thing I'd add to Larry's excellent video demonstrations and pointers is to avoid "pinching" between left thumb and index finger when making a barre. The pressure one exerts should be directed to the fingertips and barre when it's in use, not divided between left thumb and fingertips. Pinching just creates unnecessary tension and inhibits both vertical and horizontal movement.
Kudos to Larry for making and posting these clear and highly informative little gems.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by Trevor B.

The only thing I'd add to Larry's excellent video demonstrations and pointers is to avoid "pinching" between left thumb and index finger when making a barre. The pressure one exerts should be directed to the fingertips and barre when it's in use, not divided between left thumb and fingertips. Pinching just creates unnecessary tension and inhibits both vertical and horizontal movement.
Kudos to Larry for making and posting these clear and highly informative little gems.

Of course you need to pinch with the thumb. I wish this misinformation would stop floating around.

[Benny61]

I'm only a year into playing as well so I have a newbie ish question. I can play barre chords okay except the A shaped one ( like a B for example) and the way I've been managing is to play a barre on the second feet and barre from the fourth string down on the fourth fret with my ring finger in a way that mutes the high E string. It sounds okay to me but is that missing high E note gonna become an issue eventually?