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Old 10-08-2015, 07:03 AM
shekie shekie is offline
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Default Struggling w/barre chords/hand strength

I've been playing since February, so about 8+ months, returning from a roughly 37 year hiatus, in my early 60's.

It seems that my fretting hand just doesn't have enough strength to play clean barre chords, especially Bm/Bm7/F7 etc. I know the kneejerk reaction is to just keep practicing, you're only 8 months into this, but I do spend quite a bit of time working on barre chords and I just don't see much of any improvement.

I'm using a Taylor DN3 dreadnought, 25.5" scale, 1 3/4" nut, D'addario EJ16 light strings. More experienced players have told me the action on the Taylor is about as low as I would want to go without adversely affecting the sound or potential fret buzzing.

Would I be better off with a shorter scale guitar and/or a narrower nut? My Martin 000-18 has a shorter scale but with a 1 3/4" nut and slightly higher action than the Taylor, and I don't have any more success playing barre chords with it. If I would like to stay either with a dreadnought or a grand auditorium size for playing in a worship band and would like to keep my purchase under $1000, any suggestions?
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Old 10-08-2015, 07:13 AM
Rockin2Slowly Rockin2Slowly is offline
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Can't help with your question. Just wanted to comment that you have a couple nice guitars. Good luck.

BTW, I started lessons in January using Mel Bay Grade 1 Expanded edition. I purchased Grade 2 and looked at Grade 3. I didn't notice any barre chords in any of the books. Probably have another 2 months before finishing the first book. Looks like I won't be seeing any barre chords for another couple years. Could be a good thing. I hope it isn't lack of strength causing your problems because I'm already several years older than you.
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  #3  
Old 10-08-2015, 07:24 AM
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ljguitar ljguitar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shekie View Post
…Would I be better off with a shorter scale guitar and/or a narrower nut? My Martin 000-18 has a shorter scale but with a 1 3/4" nut and slightly higher action than the Taylor, and I don't have any more success playing barre chords with it. If I would like to stay either with a dreadnought or a grand auditorium size for playing in a worship band and would like to keep my purchase under $1000, any suggestions?
Hi Shekie…

After 40 years of teaching, I can tell you it's not strength but other things which affect barre chord play. If the action is set decently (not too high) and the

Here are three short (about 1 minute each) videos I made for students and friends. Old school video technology, but they still help get the info across.

I have them both embedded so you can play them from this page, and the link for each is included below it.



Where is the Pressure? - CLiCK



Barre From Above and Behind - CLiCK



Barre from Front - CLiCK


Hope these help…



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Old 10-08-2015, 07:26 AM
eljay eljay is offline
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hi, shekie.

here is an off-the-wall suggestion that just came to me, fwiw: consider getting yourself an inexpensive electric guitar, such as a squier telecaster, on which to practice bar chords. fact is, electrics generally are "easier" to play than acoustics, and an electric might help you progress and bolster your confidence.

much earlier in life, i was obsessed with being able to play full bar chords, all forms, all frets up to the 14th or so. i practiced like a maniac on a fender strat and the practice paid off. i still find bar chords more difficult on my acoustics, even though they are set up with low action.

i'm virtually all acoustic all the time these days, learning to play finger style, and my bar chording ability really comes in handy (terrible pun) for certain passages of songs i'm learning. good luck!
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Old 10-08-2015, 07:36 AM
Bingoccc Bingoccc is offline
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For me, three things affected my ability to barre. Most important was technique. Those videos will serve you well. I do notice that you list chords with barres at the first and second frets. Spend some time working on your technique with those shapes up at the sixth or seventh frets. It may make them easier to learn.

We will all recommend a good set up.

For me, strength does come in to it. I believe in exercising, and developing a grip strength beyond that needed to play the guitar. I want the hardest thing I do on guitar to only take a high percentage of my hand strength, not 100% of it. My hands are arthritic and not having to go to the max when playing makes things easier.

Good luck.
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Old 10-08-2015, 07:40 AM
Montesdad Montesdad is offline
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Larry is probably the most informative member of this forum - we are all fortunate that he contributes so generously here.

Please don't think that your guitar is setup properly - either one. Your friends may think so as theirs may need one as well - a little bit can make a big difference.

I've seen factory Martins that are ok on their setup but made noticeably better by a good professional setup, especially at the nut for fingering for barre chords in the first 5 fret area.
Every single one of my Taylors that I've owned needed help as well - and returned three of them to have the NT neck reset by Taylor to their 'factory' specs early on.
Lot of guitars change their shape a bit when new and your guitars are no different.

Between proper technique and a good setup - a passing F, C#m7, Bm or B will get easier.

64 and been playing for about 4+ years now - I went thru that and for the most part, still have some issues.
Working on it and learning is rewarding.
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Old 10-08-2015, 07:43 AM
Pualee Pualee is offline
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Just keep at it, and keep trying new ways to do it. It took me about 1.5 years from the time I picked up guitar to be confident with barre chords.

Now, three years into it, I still have a dead string here and there, but I have started positioning my had so that the important strings ring out - do I just want a full sound, or I really need the 3rd, flat 3rd, 7th to ring out? I will position my knuckle over the most critical string for the sound I need. That gives it a truer sound. Finger picking is different, and more demanding, if the string doesn't ring out, it sounds like a note was missed. Start doing barres with strumming first.

On the electric, it is very easy (as mentioned earlier) and I found that after I started playing electric, my acoustic barring dramatically improved... because I had the confidence in my hand placement.

It is hard, but keep at it. It opens up a lot of options when you have it.
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Old 10-08-2015, 07:50 AM
ronbo ronbo is offline
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Maybe a lighter guage of strings? I know folks around here love their mediums and even lights to really get the tone out of an acoustic, but even a slightly lower guage can reduce string tension. There are also some strings that have lower tension in the regular guages, I think DR makes some like that...
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Old 10-08-2015, 07:50 AM
Taylorplayer Taylorplayer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
Hi Shekie…

After 40 years of teaching, I can tell you it's not strength but other things which affect barre chord play. If the action is set decently (not too high) and the

Here are three short (about 1 minute each) videos I made for students and friends. Old school video technology, but they still help get the info across.

I have them both embedded so you can play them from this page, and the link for each is included below it.



Where is the Pressure? - CLiCK



Barre From Above and Behind - CLiCK



Barre from Front - CLiCK


Hope these help…



Thanks Larry - good information!
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  #10  
Old 10-08-2015, 08:01 AM
shekie shekie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljguitar View Post
hi shekie…

after 40 years of teaching, i can tell you it's not strength but other things which affect barre chord play. If the action is set decently (not too high) and the

here are three short (about 1 minute each) videos i made for students and friends. Old school video technology, but they still help get the info across.

I have them both embedded so you can play them from this page, and the link for each is included below it.



where is the pressure? - click



barre from above and behind - click



barre from front - click


hope these help…



THANK YOU! Will have to wait till i'm done with work to view them, but really appreciate you posting these!
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Old 10-08-2015, 09:10 AM
guitararmy guitararmy is offline
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Are your barre chord difficulties when playing standing? Might try shortening your strap more so that you can get your thumb behind the neck more. Might not look cool but takes some stress off of your wrist...
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Old 10-08-2015, 09:18 AM
JohnCambo JohnCambo is offline
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I think it would be unusual for 8 months in to have the barre chord down. They're one of the hardest things to become accustomed to when getting back into it.

Persevere, give yourself a break emotionally and and listen to the advice already given.
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Old 10-08-2015, 09:19 AM
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SFCRetired SFCRetired is offline
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It could be your 1 3/4 nut, I know making barre chords on a wider nut is more difficult. It could also be your scale length in having to reach further. some people say it's not enough to make a difference but I find the opposite is true.

Making a barre on my Ovation is a lot simpler than my Seagull but my Seagull is a short scale so that helps. While my Ovation is a long scale but with a narrow nut.

It could be your attack as well. Making a barre you have to kinda actually roll your finger back a little. Most people probably don''t even realize they are doing it, but they are I would bet.

The one barre chord you really need to learn is the Bm. A lot of songs use it, but there are also more songs that don't use barre chords than there songs that use them I would bet.

Now some people will tell you that you need to learn the F barre. That is not true from my experiences. Using a barre F when you play open chords is awkward to me.

Don't fret about it, (no pun intended) concentrate on other things and when you master them go back to the barre chords, they will become easier. Also, start making barre chords higher up the neck, like an A barre chord. As you get better, you can then move back down the neck.

Just my experiences and opinions.
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Old 10-08-2015, 10:23 AM
Marshall Marshall is offline
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Yes, shorter scale guitars will be easier; requiring less pressure. If your fingers are thin enough (not fat sausages ) narrower string spacing may also be easier. But scale makes the most difference.
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Old 10-08-2015, 11:35 AM
Guitars+gems Guitars+gems is offline
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Quote:
Here are three short (about 1 minute each) videos I made for students and friends. Old school video technology, but they still help get the info across.
Thank you for these. I found these videos helpful, especially the advice that the finger can be angled across the fret and that the thumb should be a little behind the finger, opposed to directly across. Keeping my thumb directly across from the finger always makes me tense up my shoulder.
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