regarding Emerald saddles

[steelvibe]

Just a question on something I really never see talked about here among Emerald owners. They use Graphtech saddles but I wonder if a bone saddle would make them sound even more amazing.

Anyone swapped out for bone or another material?

[Earl49]

Nope. Never felt the need. The set up and tone work just fine, and if it ain't broke.....

I also don't change out bridge pins or tuning machines on anything without good reason. But feel free to experiment and report back. My Rainsong has a bone nut and saddle which by now has a nice patina after nearly 20 years. Can you make any meaningful tonal comparisons between brands?

[David Eastwood]

Mine both still have the original issue Graphtech saddles.

I think there’s an awful lot of guff talked about tuners, saddles, nuts and bridge pins, and a great heaping dose of confirmation bias in the absolute truths declared about such things.

I’m not sure I could cope with any more ‘amazing’

[jdinco]

I'm with Earl....

[Aspiring]

My nylon x7 had a graphtech saddle that wasn't sitting very well over the pickup.

I replaced it with bone and removed the pickup and replaced it with a Schatten hfn and like the improvement. The overall result with stock transducer in and out with the new bone saddle was about 3db on my noise meter for average output increase for unplugged with and without the undersaddle transducer trying to reproduce the same striking and with the same meter placement.

But, I can say I like my end result better than the stock setup. That said I had noticeable inbalance in the output through the pickup so the stock TUSQ was also obviously not setup correctly so it is hard to attribute the improvement directly to the material change.

[steelvibe]

I agree with you guys about most of these things being pretty much just confirmation bias, but I’ve certainly never had any weird leanings or prejudices.

I don’t know how many (if any) of the respondents to my inquiry were participants on the old MacNichol CF forum but I think it has some relevance. Let me explain.

When I bought my first CF, a RainSong Shorty, It was purchased through Michael’s shop; I will never forget all the different ways bridge pins, pickups, strings, and especially saddles were discussed as being so influential on a guitar’s tone. I mean, it was fun, but kinda ridiculous really. We had the usual micarta, Tusq, Graphtech, bone, mother of pearl, mother of toilet seat, and even something called Obbligato. Heck, I think even wood saddles were discussed. Don’t believe me? Go on youtube and look up MacNichol Guitars and see how many videos that showcased saddle material comparisons, ZeroGlide nuts, and bridge pins.

I mostly bring it up because I have heard a clear difference on wood guitars when plastic is upgraded to bone, and have read from many luthiers that tone is improved (but clearly I'm in the minority here geeking out on such stuff). I’ve personally experienced it on a Breedlove and a Martin with undeniable improvement. But this hasn’t always been the case. My RainSong shipped with a mother of pearl saddle installed by Michael’s tech, but it was pretty soft and was showing saddle wear at the points where the strings would cross over in a relatively short amount of time. A bone saddle was also sent with the RainSong and I went with that because of durability over the MOP more than anything else. I couldn’t hear any discernible difference in tone. No tin can tones though, that's for sure.

So why not go bone Emerald , McPherson and RainSong? Journey uses bone, even on their $500 instruments. Most high end wood guitars ship with bone too…gotta be a reason for that

ducks for cover

[zeeway]

I tried a bone saddle on my X20 and it was ‘meh’...took it out and went back to graphtec original. I am guessing that bone saddles are not uniform (cows having minds of their own about guitar tone...), and that means inconsistent results.

[Earl49]

Originally Posted by steelvibe

......So why not go bone Emerald , McPherson and RainSong? Journey uses bone, even on their $500 instruments. Most high end wood guitars ship with bone too…gotta be a reason for that

Bone nuts have to be fully made from blanks. Tusq and others are cast in rough shape and only need some minor final fitting. That skilled labor adds up, especially on lower priced instruments. Then there are the questions of whether it really makes a tonal difference, works well with on-board pickups, etc. I don't consider a bone nut as a minus, but it isn't a big plus for me either. I judge the entire guitar on its tone, and it either passes or not. My purchases are not based on "potential".

I started with guitar forums during the last few months of the McNichol forum and participated very briefly. There was even a side trip planned over to SLC to visit the store when he suddenly closed up the retail shop, and later that CF forum. There has been some contact since, and I won a McNichol replacement saddle as a door prize once.

Eatswodo;

I've been thinking about your earlier comments regarding such things as tuners, saddles, nuts, and bridge pins. I think you are right relative to the confirmation bias that goes on whenever we invest in a particular part of a guitar. However, those things you mention, and others like strings, veneers, scales, and so forth, are all the things that make the guitar and each has an influence in the ultimate voice. I try to not get obsessive about it, but in the search for my ideal CF nylon string guitar I've found that those individual pieces/parts make a difference and warrant consideration.

And so, while I try to not be obsessive, I pay attention to those who are about any particular part of the guitar. The problem is that there is sometimes such a small difference in play and sound between one part and another it hardly seems worth the effort to exert change. What keeps me going is that I know all those parts add up in contributing to a fine guitar.

[SpruceTop]

Graph Tech Rocks!

[Bax Burgess]

Emerald X20 7 with Elixir Polyweb custom lights

corian saddle: thick/stern basses, ringing, rich resonance from within the body, trebles slightly thick/heavy

tusq saddle: overcrowded/mushed strum, somewhat muted/slightly constipated fretted notes

bone saddle: balanced, lush, brighter, trebles are freed up/sweet, surprising how rounded (not just clarified) they became, deep body resonance, though, overall bass presence is lessened (normalized?)

[David Eastwood]

Originally Posted by Bax Burgess

Emerald X20 7 with Elixir Polyweb custom lights

corian saddle: thick/stern basses, ringing, rich resonance from within the body, trebles slightly thick/heavy

tusq saddle: overcrowded/mushed strum, somewhat muted/slightly constipated fretted notes

bone saddle: balanced, lush, brighter, trebles are freed up/sweet, surprising how rounded (not just clarified) they became, deep body resonance, though, overall bass presence is lessened (normalized?)

Not sure how much more of this I can take.

First, my X20 sounds like a 'tin can', and now my X20-7 is 'mushy and constipated'?

I'm so confused (amongst other emotions)

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by eatswodo

Not sure how much more of this I can take.

First, my X20 sounds like a 'tin can', and now my X20-7 is 'mushy and constipated'?

I'm so confused (amongst other emotions)

Oh, Mama, can this really be the end
To be stuck inside of Toneville with the
Bridge Saddle blues again

The preceding BD song snippet may be applied to any guitar materials/construction topic that arises on AGF when things get kinda sorta too weird ...

[Captain Jim]

"slightly constipated fretted notes"??

I use Elixir Ex-Lax strings, now with a new minty aroma! Just kidding... as usual, I am full of crap.

David;

Once in a while, years ago, I used to stop by GC right as high school let out. The noise was off-putting but it was fascinating watching a sales person take a garbage guitar and make it sing. I've also heard some really bad players who make a great guitar sound like garbage. My take on that is that of all the pieces parts of the guitar, the player is the one who makes the music.