Moving to an Archtop

[Spook]

Recently, and after playing flat tops forever, I have discovered the archtop. I still have a great fondness for flat tops especially Kinscherff, Goodall, and Martins. However, they have been staying in the closet with archtops out on the stand.

I used to think archtops sounded like cardboard. Even expensive ones were dull and uninteresting compared to any decent flat top. Only a few like Super 400's and Guild Artist Awards actually sounded OK but music stores with their thin and often worn out strings diminished the sound while the prices precluded taking one home to tinker. Rather than concern myself I just played flat tops.

Now it appears that things have changed. I wanted to learn more about jazz so I acquired an inexpensive solid wood archtop. It was a revelation. Set up with proper strings for a decent acoustic sound and with time to play it, I found it to be quite different than my flat tops. And I like it. It has a drier, crisper sound. More strident. Tighter. My best flat tops have harmonics that ring rich and long like some tiny cathedral. The archtops have an immediacy. Still rich and still full, but each note inside a chord becomes more individual. Single note runs carry no delay as sound leaps from the top rather than mulling inside for a bit. The dynamic range from whisper to loud is much broader. And loud can be very loud without breaking up. I found that I could generate sounds similar to what I liked in acoustic archtop recordings without acquiring a 1935 L5.

In terms of playability, I don't see a lot of difference between a properly setup archtop and a flat top. Archtops are a bit more adjustable. Like flat tops, you pick a body size and sound that your comfortable with. In terms of application to varying material, while I am trying to be a better jazz player, it's not what I play most of the time. An archtop will handle everything you throw at it from folk to acoustic Hendrix covers. And, of course, show up with one of these at the gig or open mic and everyone wants to know about it.

There are more archtop choices now than I can ever recall. Godin, Loar, Yunzhi, Eastman, and custom builders in the same range as flat tops. In addition, and maybe it's just because I'm more aware of it, there seem to be more quality used archtops for reasonable prices than I've previously seen. Some of these still sound like cardboard to me, but some are both affordable and sound quite good. Naturally, GAS may crank up. I now have four with an 18" pure acoustic being my favorite. I just didn't expect to like archtops so much.

[Glennwillow]

Hi Spook,

Great post! And that is a great looking archtop in your photo!

I recently acquired an Eastman archtop and I have been experiencing some of the same revelations that you mention in your post. I am having fun with it and learning to be an even better jazz player. Mine has a Kent Armstrong neck pickup that sounds quite good. I can finally play stuff that sounds like a real jazz guitar. I never got used to the laminated jazz box sound -- that cardboard sound you mentioned.

I'm glad you are discovering new sonic territory with your archtops!

- Glenn

[skstewart]

In 1964, my parents bought me a "Truetone" (Harmony) archtop from Western Auto for my first guitar. It had an amazingly good sound for a $50 guitar. Even my first teacher, a professional musician, was surprised by the tone. I stopped playing after about 10 years, career got in the way, and gave the guitar away. I started playing again about 15 years ago, and can now afford the guitars that I always wanted. My most recent purchase was a Godin 5th Avenue. I had a taste for an archtop again because they are just different. All of the old movies of big bands have great sounding ones in them. They feel, sound and play differently than flattops, and are in a class of their own. They are also some of the most beautiful guitars made. Congradulations on switching.

[Archtop Guy]

Welcome to the club, Spook.

I had POS archtop sometime in college that got me hooked, but since I played my first quality carved top instrument there's been no going back. And the prices are really reasonable too: just compare that 30's, 40's, or 50's L-5 to contemporary Martins or Les Pauls.

Be prepared. As you play more you will hear more and you might realize that although you're getting pretty close to that '35 L-5 sound, well you're not quite there yet... you might still end up with one in the house!

Enjoy the journey.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Spook

Recently, and after playing flat tops forever, I have discovered the archtop...It was a revelation...The archtops have an immediacy. Still rich and still full, but each note inside a chord becomes more individual. Single note runs carry no delay as sound leaps from the top rather than mulling inside for a bit. The dynamic range from whisper to loud is much broader. And loud can be very loud without breaking up...Archtops are a bit more adjustable. Like flat tops, you pick a body size and sound that you're comfortable with. In terms of application to varying material...an archtop will handle everything you throw at it from folk to acoustic Hendrix covers...I now have four with an 18" pure acoustic being my favorite. I just didn't expect to like archtops so much.

That's why we love 'em - and you clearly "get it" when it comes to archtop tone. The dull, flat, "cardboard" sound you describe has unfortunately been too common until recently; with the demise of the big bands and a general loss of interest in archtops back in the '60s/70s (I passed on a non-cut Stromberg Master 400 selling for $900 in 1976, and the best pre-war Gibsons and Epiphones routinely sold for $500-600) even the few jazzers who still played carved-top guitars required greater feedback resistance for amplified performance, so the major manufacturers tended to carve their tops thicker than would be conducive to acoustic tone (at the end of his career even John D'Angelico would ask if a customer would be using the guitar as an acoustic or amplified instrument, and built it accordingly). It's also no surprise that the 18-incher is your fave for pure acoustic playing: except for the very lowest notes the guitar's range is comparable to the cello, and simple physics dictates that you need a comparably-sized body to obtain comparable richness and depth. I've been an archtop player since 1962, owned a few nice examples (as well as some dogs) and played a couple hundred more, and IMO nothing beats those old 18" big-band boxes: the 15" and 16" instruments can have a sweet midrange and great cutting power (as the former owner of a '46 Epi Blackstone I can attest to the latter), and a 17" Epi Deluxe or Gibson L-5 (especially the X-braced versions) can be a good all-around guitar, but play even the best of them alongside a fine Super 400/Emperor/D'A New Yorker and they pale in comparison, in terms of available tonal color and dynamic range. Use yours well and often; like orchestral stringed instruments they continue to develop their tone over years (decades, in some cases) rather than weeks or months, so be patient - your efforts will be well-rewarded in your lifetime, and well-appreciated in generations to come...

[RobertForman]

all this archtop talk motivated me to post a pic of mine

[grampa]

Originally Posted by skstewart

In 1964, my parents bought me a "Truetone" (Harmony) archtop from Western Auto for my first guitar. It had an amazingly good sound for a $50 guitar. Even my first teacher, a professional musician, was surprised by the tone. I stopped playing after about 10 years, career got in the way, and gave the guitar away. I started playing again about 15 years ago, and can now afford the guitars that I always wanted. My most recent purchase was a Godin 5th Avenue. I had a taste for an archtop again because they are just different. All of the old movies of big bands have great sounding ones in them. They feel, sound and play differently than flattops, and are in a class of their own. They are also some of the most beautiful guitars made. Congradulations on switching.

I scored a Harmony Archtone a couple of years ago that was made in '64. It is in incredible condiion for its age and even with a few minor issues with the action it sounds lovely.

[RobertForman]

here is what my archtop sounds like, click here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0ypDnBfG08

[rpguitar]

I always loved them aesthetically but didn't learn how to play them properly, or what to expect from them, until almost 15 years of flirtation. Then it was all over. Always loved Gibsons, so like any serious musical explorer, I had to make my way through the classics. 16", 17", 18", parallel braced, X-braced, cutaway, non-cut, pickups, no pickups, you name it.

With the current stable I am about 90% sure I'm utterly satisfied with the journey's outcome. For the record, I also love and enjoy a few flattops. But archtops feel more personal to me, and they are unique instruments among the average gaggle of guitarists - especially outside of jazz circles.

Congrats on your guitar, and on the musical path it will surely take you on.

[The Old Anglo]

Originally Posted by RobertForman

here is what my archtop sounds like, click here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0ypDnBfG08

That was Very Nice!!!. Thanks!.

[pszy22]

Must be something going around. I also just recently purchased a Godin 5th Ave. Only had it for a few days, I find the more I play it, the more I come to appreciate the sound it is capable of producing.

I do very much like the feel of the guitar as well.

I reckon it'll be really cramped for space. Good luck though.

[RobertForman]

That was Very Nice!!!. Thanks!

Thank you The Old Anglo

Also, rpguitar I like your archtop clips

[ddeand]

This is one of my favorite players and one great CD:

http://www.allmusic.com/album/the-ar...p-mw0002198790

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by ddeand

This is one of my favorite players and one great CD:

http://www.allmusic.com/album/the-ar...p-mw0002198790

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

...IMO nothing beats those old 18" big-band boxes: the 15" and 16" instruments can have a sweet midrange and great cutting power...and a 17" Epi Deluxe or Gibson L-5 (especially the X-braced versions) can be a good all-around guitar, but play even the best of them alongside a fine Super 400/Emperor/D'A New Yorker and they pale in comparison, in terms of available tonal color and dynamic range...

I rest my case - and I've gotta have this album!