My 2005 D-28 Marquis prefers plastic pins over bone -- Huh ??

[brencat]

Some of you here know that I picked up a beauty of a 2005 Martin D-28 Marquis at the Philly Expo show back in July. I had the bridge slotted by Brothers Music in Wind Gap, PA, and they installed unslotted bone pins at my request and their suggestion.

For the past several weeks, something has been bugging me about the tone of the guitar. It had seemed to lose some of its vibrancy and reverb as well as overall volume. Then I did a quick search and realized a lot of people have posted threads about their Martins preferring plastic pins over bone or any other material. So I took the old plastic pins, turned them around so the slot was facing rearward and reinstalled them with the solid side facing the string.

Boom! Suddenly the old Marquis was back... huge sounding, vibrant, chest rumbling. How is this possible that the new bone pins dampened the feedback so much?? Anyway, I'm going to order a proper set of Antique Acoustic all-solid pins shortly. Looks like my Marquis prefers the plastic!

Then I did the same test on my Gibson J-45 which also had its bridge slotted this year, but the new bone pins work better there.

Wow...I learned something today. Anyone else here have a similar revelation ?

[Pitar]

2004. Did the bridge pin waltz on a couple guitars and decided there wasn't sufficient qualitative gain to remark about. Then I bought a pinless bridge guitar and relieved myself of further inquiry.

I will say that the biggest difference I could actually hear, but can't claim it to be better, was with brass pins on a Larrivee OMV-09E. The B string gained over the other 5 strings. That told me the question wasn't a matter of which (common) material to try across all of the strings. It was more a question of which material imparted a better response from each string, respectively, the result being possibly two or more pins of varying material. That confounded a simple inquiry so I went back to the original equipment and called it a day.

[Dryfly]

Remember in the past someone was selling a set of varying pin materials to emulate what Young’s tech does on his guitars.

[Tnfiddler]

I just tried the plastic to bone swap on my 2018 Reimagined D-41 and it was a major fail. The bone pins Killed that brilliant and amazing tone I bought the guitar for. Put the plastic back in and my tone was back.

[zoopeda]

The heavier the pins, the more vibration dampening you get. Deader tone. More sustain, but less volume, resonance, and clarity. Think of brass as the extreme. Bone is almost that way. Ebony less so. Plastic the lightest, so you get more vibration, volume, response, snap, and clarity. I saw Bruce Sexaur post once (jokingly) that brass pins void his guitar lifetime warranty. He just felt they make the guitar sound terrible, especially a lighter built guitar. Bone is almost that way. Same goes for those brass bridgemate bridge plate protectors. What’s the point of buying a lighter braced guitar with a smaller, lighter bridgeplate (like the Marquis) only to add a bunch more mass back into the same key part of the bracing you just worked so hard to lighten up?

[brencat]

Originally Posted by Tnfiddler

I just tried the plastic to bone swap on my 2018 Reimagined D-41 and it was a major fail. The bone pins Killed that brilliant and amazing tone I bought the guitar for. Put the plastic back in and my tone was back.

Originally Posted by zoopeda

The heavier the pins, the more vibration dampening you get. Deader tone. More sustain, but less volume, resonance, and clarity. Think of brass as the extreme. Bone is almost that way. Ebony less so. Plastic the lightest, so you get more vibration, volume, response, snap, and clarity.

Thank you both! This confirms what I was hearing. Going to buy some proper Antique Acoustic unslotted plastic pins and call it a day.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by zoopeda

The heavier the pins, the more vibration dampening you get. Deader tone. More sustain, but less volume, resonance, and clarity. Think of brass as the extreme. Bone is almost that way. Ebony less so. Plastic the lightest, so you get more vibration, volume, response, snap, and clarity. I saw Bruce Sexaur post once (jokingly) that brass pins void his guitar lifetime warranty. He just felt they make the guitar sound terrible, especially a lighter built guitar. Bone is almost that way. Same goes for those brass bridgemate bridge plate protectors. What’s the point of buying a lighter braced guitar with a smaller, lighter bridgeplate (like the Marquis) only to add a bunch more mass back into the same key part of the bracing you just worked so hard to lighten up?

Yep, keep it as light as possible to allow for the top to vibrate without any extra mass.

[OjaiAndrew]

I’ve had mixed experiences. Sometimes bone seems to enliven the tone over plastic. Other times it’s a bit too strident. Boxwood pins work very well on some of my guitars. They’re far lighter than ebony. Every guitar is different.

[frankmcr]

This may be crazy talk, but maybe Martin & Gibson use plastic pins because they think plastic pins sound just fine, rather than because they just don't care or because they need to cheap out on bridgepins to make a profit.

Just a thought.

[maxtheaxe]

Originally Posted by OjaiAndrew

I’ve had mixed experiences. Sometimes bone seems to enliven the tone over plastic. Other times it’s a bit too strident. Boxwood pins work very well on some of my guitars. They’re far lighter than ebony. Every guitar is different.

This is about right. I think the answer to the question of whether or not bone pins make a guitar sound better is yes, they do, except when they don't. I've had varying degrees of success using pins to alter the tone of a guitar. I noticed a big difference, for example, when I switched the bone pins on my Larrivee L-10 Custom to a set of Taylor ebony/abalone pins I had laying around...the ebony pins are still on that guitar. Other times/guitars...I didn't notice much difference when changing pin material...too many variables at play here to quantify it.

I think another aspect of this question might have to do with fitment...maybe the Martin plastic pins sound better because they fit more precisely...? Are you certain the bone ones you used were the correct taper, seated well, & all that?

[Wade Hampton]

Originally Posted by frankmcr

This may be crazy talk, but maybe Martin & Gibson use plastic pins because they think plastic pins sound just fine, rather than because they just don't care or because they need to cheap out on bridgepins to make a profit.

Just a thought.

Frank - you're off your meds!! You're trying to talk about bridge pins in a thoughtful and reasonable way!!!

But I do happen to agree with you, 100%.


Wade Hampton Miller

[ahorsewithnonam]

Years ago a Martin rep was in a GC. I commented how wrong it seemed to have cheap plastic bridge pins on their high end guitars.

He said all bridge pins make a subtle change to the guitars fundamental tone............except...............PLASTIC. Plastic is neutral and allows the guitar to sound at its natural state. Made great sense.

[Rev Roy]

Originally Posted by Tnfiddler

I just tried the plastic to bone swap on my 2018 Reimagined D-41 and it was a major fail. The bone pins Killed that brilliant and amazing tone I bought the guitar for. Put the plastic back in and my tone was back.

Glad it worked for you. I had the opposite experience. I have bone pins in my 2018 Reimagined D-41 and it has “that brilliant and amazing tone” in spades. Like most things guitar related...I suspect the effects of pin material is subjective and very guitar specific.

[Brucebubs]

Maybe someone should post a thread about the effects of different bridge pins?

[zmf]

Originally Posted by Brucebubs

Maybe someone should post a thread about the effects of different bridge pins?

Ridiculous idea. Nobody would be interested in discussing that.