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  #31  
Old 11-17-2020, 07:15 PM
Nemoman Nemoman is online now
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The walnut neck looks wonderful--are you going with a satin finish on it?

I'm enjoying watching this come together!
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  #32  
Old 11-17-2020, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Nemoman View Post
The walnut neck looks wonderful--are you going with a satin finish on it?

I'm enjoying watching this come together!
Thanks buddy! I think it will be gloss. Do you think it should be satin? I think every guitar I own is glass, but maybe there's a better way?? I'm open minded, let me know. Thx!
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  #33  
Old 11-17-2020, 07:53 PM
Hanter Hanter is offline
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My neck finish will be satin. The rest of the body, headstock and back of headstock will be gloss. It’s more of which finish you prefer while playing. If your fingers and palms perspire a lot a gloss finish may cause stickiness while playing and unsightly stains after. Thankfully I don’t but I prefer the smoother and faster feel of a satin neck. It’s also fuss-free in terms of maintenance

Your rosette design is killer! A few months ago I somehow came across that same design online (not knowing that it was your old guitar) and told John I wish we could rewind and do this on my guitar instead. He said he was in the process of building a guitar with that same design (again not knowing that it was your current build!) and I was very envious.
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  #34  
Old 11-17-2020, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Hanter View Post
My neck finish will be satin. The rest of the body, headstock and back of headstock will be gloss. It’s more of which finish you prefer while playing. If your fingers and palms perspire a lot a gloss finish may cause stickiness while playing and unsightly stains after. Thankfully I don’t but I prefer the smoother and faster feel of a satin neck. It’s also fuss-free in terms of maintenance

Your rosette design is killer! A few months ago I somehow came across that same design online (not knowing that it was your old guitar) and told John I wish we could rewind and do this on my guitar instead. He said he was in the process of building a guitar with that same design (again not knowing that it was your current build!) and I was very envious.
Thanks for the info Hanter. I'll think on that. I've not had any issues with Gloss, but maybe I need to try satin. Things to think about...

And thanks for the kind words on the rosette. I've always loved that design from the first time I set eyes on that first guitar. We changed it up just a bit, but heck the original design was so nice, we just couldn't see changing much. I like your rosette very well. I think you'll love it over time as the pattern and the woods are so interesting!
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  #35  
Old 11-18-2020, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by invguy921 View Post
Thanks Mike! Always great to hear from you!



Thanks Andy! Yep I'm as excited about this one as I ever have been another guitar. Somehow this wood got overlooked by others who had John build guitars and I was tickled to get it. And yes that West Coast size is just perfect for me. Thanks for the nice words!



PJ, Thanks for asking. I'll let John chime in on this if he sees it, but the rods are to provide added support to the neck/guitar body connection because John's builds include a cantilevered neck...that is that the neck isn't fastened or glued to the top. As such, the added support of the rods insures that it doesn't break down over time. I think that is "close" to correct, and if not John will hopefully fill in the needed details.
Good explanation Mike. It’s not a new idea really. The Larson brothers used to put a solid tube (aluminum i think since this was before the days of carbon fiber) from the neck block all the way to the tail block. The idea then as it is now is to support that block more rigidly so that it does not rely on the top for support. That means that the upper bout of the top is more able to join in making music. So the fingerboard extension floats over the top like it does in an arch top guitar and the internal block attaches to the top about like the heel block attaches. I thought a single rod running down the center of the guitar would not look cool through the sound hole and it would definitely get in the way of the adjustability of this neck which will be adjustable, so two angled carbon fiber rods that transfer the load to the sides of the guitar near the waist should support the load nicely and not be in the way.
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  #36  
Old 11-18-2020, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j. Kinnaird View Post
Good explanation Mike. It’s not a new idea really. The Larson brothers used to put a solid tube (aluminum i think since this was before the days of carbon fiber) from the neck block all the way to the tail block. The idea then as it is now is to support that block more rigidly so that it does not rely on the top for support. That means that the upper bout of the top is more able to join in making music. So the fingerboard extension floats over the top like it does in an arch top guitar and the internal block attaches to the top about like the heel block attaches. I thought a single rod running down the center of the guitar would not look cool through the sound hole and it would definitely get in the way of the adjustability of this neck which will be adjustable, so two angled carbon fiber rods that transfer the load to the sides of the guitar near the waist should support the load nicely and not be in the way.
They are working just fine in my builds! Every little thing affects everything else. All the little things JK does extra are producing FAB TONE AND VOLUME.

And comfort too.

Carry on and have FUN

Paul
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  #37  
Old 11-18-2020, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by invguy921 View Post
Thanks buddy! I think it will be gloss. Do you think it should be satin? I think every guitar I own is glass, but maybe there's a better way?? I'm open minded, let me know. Thx!
I have a satin finish on both of my Stehr walnut necks and I love the look and feel of them. I don't really have issues with a gloss neck but I prefer the feel and smoothness of the satin.

Either way, that walnut will be lovely!
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  #38  
Old 11-19-2020, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j. Kinnaird View Post
Good explanation Mike. It’s not a new idea really. The Larson brothers used to put a solid tube (aluminum i think since this was before the days of carbon fiber) from the neck block all the way to the tail block. The idea then as it is now is to support that block more rigidly so that it does not rely on the top for support. That means that the upper bout of the top is more able to join in making music. So the fingerboard extension floats over the top like it does in an arch top guitar and the internal block attaches to the top about like the heel block attaches. I thought a single rod running down the center of the guitar would not look cool through the sound hole and it would definitely get in the way of the adjustability of this neck which will be adjustable, so two angled carbon fiber rods that transfer the load to the sides of the guitar near the waist should support the load nicely and not be in the way.
Thank you!

I was sure they were there for a reason but not being a builder, I couldn't figure out why they were there. I guess if I'd looked more closely I might have read about the floating fingerboard extension.

Thanks again,
PJ
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  #39  
Old 11-20-2020, 09:10 AM
Dave Higham Dave Higham is offline
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Many builders install these carbon fibre tubes. Rick Turner was the first I came across, around 2002. He installed 4 tubes from neck block to waist and called them flying buttresses. Mark Swanson, Howard Klepper, Kent Chasson, Tod Rose, David Myka and of course Tim McKnight are some of the others. I copied Rick Turner's method when I built myself an acoustic bass guitar in 2008.
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  #40  
Old 11-20-2020, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Higham View Post
Many builders install these carbon fibre tubes. Rick Turner was the first I came across, around 2002. He installed 4 tubes from neck block to waist and called them flying buttresses. Mark Swanson, Howard Klepper, Kent Chasson, Tod Rose, David Myka and of course Tim McKnight are some of the others. I copied Rick Turner's method when I built myself an acoustic bass guitar in 2008.

Thanks for the input Dave. You seem to know more builders that I do who use these rods. I could have named Rick Turner and Tim McKnight but that's about it. I assume this picture is your work. Looks like a clean well engineered body.
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  #41  
Old 11-20-2020, 12:32 PM
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Default A little neck work

Speaking of carbon fiber
The neck has a carbon fiber “D” tube embedded in it. It’s a pricey reinforcement but probably adds the maximum amount of neck stiffness short of solid steel and it is lighter than the wood it replaces.


To stiffen that fingerboard extension which will be floating over the top with nothing under it except that quarter inch of wood you can see notched into the neck I embed more carbon fiber vertical rods. The D tube would be too thin and its engineered “box” structure reduced to weakness if it were extended into the fingerboard extension. SO

Two grooves are plowed into the walnut extension and into the meaty portion of the neck to house the carbon fiber rods

You can see the little rods awaiting their new home



The rods are deeper than their slots. After they are epoxied in place the fingerboard will have shallow grooves plowed into the underside to accommodate the raised portion of the carbon fiber. When the fingerboard is glued in place the rods and the wood under the fingerboard extension and the fingerboard will become one unit and the carbon fiber will not be compromised as much by the inevitable tapering that happens to that walnut under the fingerboard when fitting the neck.

So all the CF is being clamped in place with straight edges to keep things straight and the cheeks for the peghead are also getting added.
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  #42  
Old 11-20-2020, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j. Kinnaird View Post
Speaking of carbon fiber
The neck has a carbon fiber “D” tube embedded in it. It’s a pricey reinforcement but probably adds the maximum amount of neck stiffness short of solid steel and it is lighter than the wood it replaces.


To stiffen that fingerboard extension which will be floating over the top with nothing under it except that quarter inch of wood you can see notched into the neck I embed more carbon fiber vertical rods. The D tube would be too thin and its engineered “box” structure reduced to weakness if it were extended into the fingerboard extension. SO

Two grooves are plowed into the walnut extension and into the meaty portion of the neck to house the carbon fiber rods

You can see the little rods awaiting their new home



The rods are deeper than their slots. After they are epoxied in place the fingerboard will have shallow grooves plowed into the underside to accommodate the raised portion of the carbon fiber. When the fingerboard is glued in place the rods and the wood under the fingerboard extension and the fingerboard will become one unit and the carbon fiber will not be compromised as much by the inevitable tapering that happens to that walnut under the fingerboard when fitting the neck.

So all the CF is being clamped in place with straight edges to keep things straight and the cheeks for the peghead are also getting added.
This is all going into my new build, and went into my last as well. So I imported this to show the process in my build thread too.

Go John.

Mike, our necks are in close proximity... woohoo

Salud

Paul
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Big Maple/Cedar Dread
Jumbo Spanish Cedar/WRC
Jumbo OLD Brazilian RW/WRC

R.T 2 12c sinker RW/Claro
96 422ce bought new!
96 LKSM 12
552ce 12x12

J. Stepick Bari Weissy WRC/Walnut

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Last edited by Guitars44me; 11-22-2020 at 10:20 AM.
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  #43  
Old 12-20-2020, 08:59 AM
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Of course it's Christmas and John tells me that he not only has a bunch of guitars in process, but he also has a "secret" Christmas project on the bench as well. So...I won't reveal the secret, but I will show a picture that he sent me of some progress on the fretboard. We had a long delay as a result of a vendor not delivering Paua as promised. But, we're back in the game again now

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  #44  
Old 12-20-2020, 11:34 AM
Nemoman Nemoman is online now
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Very nice--that fretboard looks amazing!
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2020 Baranik Meridian (Blue Spruce/Manchinga)
2020 Wilborn Arum (Tunnel 14/Coco)
2021 Kinnaird Graybeard (BC Cedar/Bog Oak)
2022 Kinnaird CS Student Build (Adi/Padauk)
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  #45  
Old 12-20-2020, 12:02 PM
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My goodness that Paua is spectacular !!!

And a secret Christmas project, woohoo. Hang in there!!!

Paul
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3 John Kinnaird SS 12c CUSTOMS:
Big Maple/Cedar Dread
Jumbo Spanish Cedar/WRC
Jumbo OLD Brazilian RW/WRC

R.T 2 12c sinker RW/Claro
96 422ce bought new!
96 LKSM 12
552ce 12x12

J. Stepick Bari Weissy WRC/Walnut

More
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