HELP! Rainsong Neck reset question

[Dbone]

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

I understand the OP's vexation at having to spend money to ship a guitar that potentially was let out the door with a problem. I agree that it should have been sent back within Ted's 72-hour return policy.

What I don't understand is a concern about spending some money to have the guitar evaluated by RainSong. If it isn't playable as it is, investing a bit more to get a resolution is better than fuming and having an unplayable guitar. RainSong has a reputation for being a stand-up guitar maker - if there is, indeed, an issue, they are your best resolution.

I'd be interested to hear about "the rest of the story." I can't imagine RainSong and LA Guitar Sales would intentionally let out a guitar with an issue.

All I hear around this forum is how incredible this LA Guitars place is. If this is true, I kinda see where you are going with this. Something isn’t lining up. What are the odds a place that reputable would send a guitar out in that shape? I’d say something significant happened in shipping, or something similar.

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by Dbone

All I hear around this forum is how incredible this LA Guitars place is. If this is true, I kinda see where you are going with this. Something isn’t lining up. What are the odds a place that reputable would send a guitar out in that shape? I’d say something significant happened in shipping, or something similar.

I've bought quite a few guitars from Ted, and returned two (not zero). I think his judgement is good, but we don't all agree. That leaves it to the purchaser to return a guitar that is not what they judge as ok. Ted and RainSong thought that guitar was in-spec. That does not mean you should except it, but raises the bar a bit on expecting warranty service without paying for shipping, which is regrettably how it is much of the time.

[blue4now]

Y’all made pull out the strait edge and check my om1000. All good. Hits right where it should

[revj]

Does this look within spec to you guys?... My wife is really not wanting me to send it in right now worried that I will be just wasting our money.

[MiG50]

Does this explain what you're seeing?:

https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare...way-explained/

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by revj

Does this look within spec to you guys?... My wife is really not wanting me to send it in right now worried that I will be just wasting our money.

RainSong ships their guitars at 7/64" and 5/64" between the bottom of the low and high E strings and the top of the 12th fret. Martin's shipping spec lets that go as high as 4/32" and 3/32"

For the low E, 7/64" converts to 2.8 mm which looks roughly the same as what you have photographed.

The fretboard extension on a RainSong has the same radius as over the neck. Many manufacturers flatten it out because otherwise it makes the action look high (the widening fretboard's edge gets thinner as you go up the neck if you don't flatten the radius at least for the extension which is rarely played). Also RainSong's have no bracing and as a result the fretboard extension deflects very slightly into the guitar which again makes the action look higher at the end of the fretboard extension (but no hump behind the bridge!).

[SprintBob]

Your action looks low on the low E at the 12th fret (I read it as 2 mm). The action near the end of the fingerboard looks just under 3 mm. Have you had a tech do a setup for you? Maybe a new saddle?

What kind of neck relief do you have? Usually you set the neck relief and then work on the string action.

[ManyMartinMan]

Originally Posted by revj

..So Last July I bought a new Rainsong DN 12 fret CO last July from LA Guitars online. Immeadiatly I realized that something was up with the neck joint, it was a rare guitar so I wanted it fixed and LA was just offering me to return it. Talking to Rainsong they were going to charge me shipping both ways just to check if it was up to their standards (Could be a 250$ Expence). That really put be back a little bit. They could not stand behind their work. The ...

Same with every builder. If you have to ship a guitar for repair, whether to Bryan Kimsey or Fender, Gibson or Rainsong, the shipping is on you. If you were returning the guitar as defective, I'm sure Ted or Rainsong might have paid to take it back if returned "immediately". Additionally, if they made a one off, they can make another identical.

[MC5C]

I'm seeing pretty close to my standard of 3/32 for the low E on the sixth string at the 12th fret. There is some parallax from the camera angle that makes it looks a wee bit higher. No way does that need a neck reset UNLESS the bridge saddle height is unacceptable. You haven't addressed that at all. I would check the neck relief, set it to .005" using standard techniques, and I might reduce the saddle height by .010". It actually looks really good.

Edit: do you play that thing up past the 12th fret, or are you mostly down a bit lower? I would check the nut action - it's almost always too high on any new guitar, unless it got set up by a real good tech. Fret the strings at the third fret, examine the string height over the first fret, should be tiny, almost hard to see. Tap the string and see if you hear a click as it hits the first fret, or pluck the string next to the nut and see if the pitch increases as you fret at the second fret so the string is firmly down on the first fret. Also check the action height for the higher strings, they can be different than the low strings and make the guitar seem hard to play. But I find that if the nut action is right, the guitar feels great up to around the 9th fret.

[ManyMartinMan]

Originally Posted by tbeltrans

Aren't carbon fiber guitars supposed to not need neck resets or most any other kind of maintenance aside from string changes? ....

Any and everything can fail. Especially when it is a manmade item.

[CincyFlyer]

I have three Rainsong guitars. One has a truss rod, the other two do not. I have a David Wilcox Signature that simply has a very stiff neck, so that alt tunings don't grossly affect the action. My 12-string (no rod) on the other hand has the saddle lowered as much as I'm comfortable with (the break-over is less than ideal) and I don't want to shave the bridge, as that's a one-way street. I've been in touch with several luthiers that have reset necks on these. The neck is bolted on, but the fretboard extension is glued to the top. Heat will remove it, just like the wooden analogue, and then the neck can be reset in the usual way. How much heat? Don't know yet.
I've done this on a couple of cheap wood guitars, and may try it on the Rainsong, as I wish to use strings of reasonable gauge, and also tune it a bit higher (it's a full step down now, to keep the action out of the "cheese cutter" range.)
If it works out, I may even go "full Taylor" and make a nice wedge for under the fretboard, but not glue it.

[Earl49]

Cincy, I am a handy guy but would be very reluctant to risk resetting the neck myself when for the cost of shipping I could send it back to Rainsong. The neck reset should be a warranty item if you are the original owner. JMO.

Revj, have your luthier take action measurements and send them to Dave at Rainsong. If a luthier sends the info they might take that more seriously than a customer's efforts. If those measurements are within their specs, then you have your answer at little or no additional cost. Either way, it is standard practice to pay shipping both ways on warranty repairs. This assumes that you are looking for a solution and not just venting -- you have not responded to this thread in almost eight months.

[CincyFlyer]

I used to build electric guitars back in the seventies, and have done a few neck resets on wood boxes, so I'm gonna decide whether I want to do this one, or keep it tuned a step low. It's quite a bit livelier at standard tuning, but it's a cheese cutter.
I've gotten quotes of four hundred bucks to reset, plus shipping both ways, and money is tight at the moment. I have plenty of time to decide; if I give it a go, I'll document it.

[JerryM]

I had a custom 12 fret dread rainsong that I received and the neck angle was a bit off so i could not lower the action to my satisfaction and still have enough string break over the saddle so I contacted RS and sent it in for repair.
I had the guitar back in two weeks and it was repaired to my satisfaction and I never thought the shipping was a big deal, even if you return a new guitar most dealers charge for shipping and deduct it from your refund. They can't really be expected to cover all the costs.
Very few dealers now are eating shipping costs, they may ship free but if you decide to return expect cost covered.
Ship it, get it repaired and get on with playing ......JMO

[varmonter]

I have a shorty that I bought
used from a dealer online.
It was a consignment item. And
was non returnable. It looks
Relatively unplayed. Not much fret wear. But the neck angle was
atrocious. I read a thread here where
Someone was able to take
The nuts off the neck remove the 2 studs and get enough room between
The heel and body to slide some
emory cloth back and forth
And sanded the heal. Without removing the glued fretboard.
I was going to try this and
Actually found the bottom nut
To be a bit loose. Tightening this
Brought the straightedge to the
Top of the bridge. Ymmv.