condenser mic help

[hbflyer]

Hoping you can help steer me in the right direction.

After watching lots of youtubes of live bluegrass/folkie stuff like Reina del Cid, I have an image of me singing and playing into 1 condenser mic. I would use my ultrasound amp.

Right now I'm using a dynamic mic for vocals and my J35's piezzo but I have never been really happy with the results...mushy and quacky.

Gotta do this on the cheap too for the short term so looking for a used one and would like to stay under $150. Recommendations on this setup and any specific model recommendations would be appreciated. There are so many makes and models. The MXL 990 comes up a lot as a choice. There is a Sterling 55 on craigslist for 120$ I'm thinking about checking out which has pretty good reviews but somewhere I read that it does not have good range.

Another solution is a used kk meridian for the guitar and try to EQ my mic better. But it seems for clear crisp vocals you need to go condenser.

Thanks in advance for any help!

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by hbflyer

…it seems for clear crisp vocals you need to go condenser.

Hi hbf

To get clear crisp vocals, you probably need to not be singing through an acoustic amp, but through a PA system. UltraSound amps (in my experience) are not designed to handle vocals, and are effective for about a 15-20 foot throw.

I own several UltraSound amps (they all use the same 8" coaxial speakers) and occasionally sing through them at very tiny coffee houses using just a Shure SM-58 (or Behringer XM-8500) and it sounds fine. But I do get far better vocal sound running vocals through the house PA.

If you decide to use condenser mics which use phantom power, you will likely need to elevate the speaker off the ground to at least waist level, and put it in front of you facing the room (where you cannot hear it). Otherwise feedback will emerge very quickly at even low to moderate levels.

And if you run through the UltraSound and then out the XLR in the back to a PA the vocals can sound fine in the amp, but easily distort in the mains. Not sure why, but I've been using them now for about 15 years as my main acoustic amplifiers (because they make guitars sound fabulous and natural).

Hope this adds to the discussion…

[GmanJeff]

I'd reconsider your ambition to use a single mic for both vocals and your guitar, which I infer is a desire based on appearances rather than on effectiveness. Pros using such setups have the advantage of professional sound engineers and equipment and sometimes may use other configurations when circumstances require alternative approaches.

As you probably know, condenser mics can be more prone to feedback, so they are tricky to use in noisier environments or where you're unable to be particular about how you position the mic relative to your FOH speakers, monitors, and reflected sounds.

I use a Neumann KMS 105 handheld condenser for vocals for acoustic gigs, and it does provide better clarity than most dynamic alternatives, but I would not use it in a noisy environment.

As LJ notes, take into account your signal chain. Using a amp which doesn't flatter vocals particularly well renders the mic you use less relevant, since the mic itself will not overcome any deficiencies in the amp's ability to produce the vocal tone and clarity you want.

One consideration in using any type of external mic for a guitar is that you need to be consistent in positioning the instrument relative to the mic. If you move around at all, your sound and volume will vary, which is probably not an effect you want. It might work ok if you stand completely still or sit while you play.

[hbflyer]

Well you got me there. I think condenser mics do look a lot cooler.
But the amateur recorded sound from those youtube vids using them are so good.

After 20 years hiatus, I have started playing guitar seriously again for the last 5 years. I play with a couple acoustic jams but I think I'm ready to try a some amplified live. I've been using my amplified system at home with my looper and working out sets. My first attempts out will be open mics and that will use the house PA though.

I think both of you point out that it takes a lot of experience trial/error to get a system that works for you. Per your advice, I have access to a 12" power speaker that may be the next experiment.

I think I will still get a condenser mic to experiment with though for demo type recording. Maybe some day It'll justify buying an Eartrumpet! Very cool looking.

[Big Band Guitar]

I use a single mike when I do a solo gig.

This one with a shock mount.

https://www.amazon.com/Samson-Techno...crophone&psc=1

[Peter Z]

Don't do it! A LCD for recording yes, live only if
- you play in acoustically treated environments
- you use really great PA speakers
- you have a really good EQ
- and time for the soundcheck.

Handheld condensers like the above mentioned Neumann or a AKG C535 just for vocals work great. Still I'd recommend good speakers and a mixer with phantom power and a good EQ.
Take a look at Lewitt mics if you want good quality at reasonable prices or find a used C535.
Or look at the Shure SH55 if the cool appearence is important. It doesn't sound bad, but definately not crisp.