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  #1  
Old 07-17-2018, 05:42 AM
hat hat is offline
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Default top bracing on a Hybrid guitar

I'm getting ready to build a hybrid type guitar ( think Taylor T5Z) and need some advise on top bracing. The basic idea is this: I have a generic strat type body that I am going to cut down to use the neck pocket and pickup cavity as a base for the build. The body will be built around that, somewhere between a Les Paul and a 00 guitar in size. It will have a solid top, either Walnut, or Spruce.. Most likely F holes, and a glued on bridge. I'm currently thinking either a pinless bridge, or a tailpiece. I am using a B-Band pickup for the acoustic side, with both the undersaddle and soundboard transducer.
What I'm wondering is, with such a small, tightly constrained top, how should it be braced to hold up, but still give a good acoustic tone through the B-Band.
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Old 07-19-2018, 05:43 AM
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Hmmm, interesting
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Old 07-19-2018, 07:49 AM
LeightonBankes LeightonBankes is offline
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Default it doesn't make any sense

to chop up a strat and cobble together some other stuff on it. I don't want to discourage you, but I would like to discourage you. No one answered because no one can imagine anything but an abortion based on what you are trying to convey. Sorry
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:37 AM
Truckjohn Truckjohn is offline
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The hard part is trying to dip your toe in halfway between an electric and an acoustic.

Remember that the Electric guitar design was sorted out over (almost) the last 100 years now... And they all started by putting a pickup on an acoustic guitar... They thrashed around a lot because they had so much trouble on stage - and the design eventually evolved into the carved log...

You generally get a fairly quiet, unresponsive acoustic that's ultra well behaved plugged in...

Several makers have done it - but that's sort of where it ends up... Factory guitars seem well suited for this - as the factory is *really* good at making stiff, unresponsive guitars..

For example - doing a hollow body electric with a piezo bridge transducer.... The ones I have seen were sort of a hollow Les Paul with spruce tops which were 3/16"-1/4" thick with some bracing added... That helps them avoid feedback issues onstage.... And the stiff structure helps maintain the typical "Electric" playability...
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:47 AM
hat hat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeightonBankes View Post
to chop up a strat and cobble together some other stuff on it. I don't want to discourage you, but I would like to discourage you. No one answered because no one can imagine anything but an abortion based on what you are trying to convey. Sorry
OK then - but this isn't the editorial page. All I was asking for were tips on bracing the top.
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Last edited by hat; 07-19-2018 at 08:54 AM.
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Old 07-19-2018, 10:37 AM
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Bruce Sexauer Bruce Sexauer is offline
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I read this yesterday and decided that if you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all. And yet: I cannot wrap my head around there being any acoustic quality to the proposed instrument that would be served by a bracing system. Chambered solid bodies are a real thing, but acoustic/electrics the size of a strat are a sort of oxymoron, IMO. I do not think chambered solid bodies have meaningful bracing systems, but I could be wrong.
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Old 07-19-2018, 10:37 AM
MC5C MC5C is offline
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The T5z uses a variation on archtop parallel bracing, probably located to support the pickups. I'd stick with that, it is very similar to how Benedetto braces their hybrid archtop guitars. The magnetic pickups are mounted into and are supported by the braces. Not sure of the whole carve up a strat body idea either, I personally would get a mahogany slab body of the shape you want, route in the neck pocket and fully chamber out the whole inside of the body. In fact, I did exactly that once with an arched top to make an electric solid body/archtop hybrid. Made a lot of little mahogany chips, waste of wood, but easy...

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Old 07-19-2018, 11:05 AM
Rodger Knox Rodger Knox is offline
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Here's something cool that didn't work. It's much closer to an acoustic than what was described in the OP.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg rk06.jpg (62.1 KB, 59 views)
File Type: jpg front.JPG (55.9 KB, 58 views)
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Old 07-19-2018, 11:29 AM
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I guess I didn't do a very good job of describing the idea. So let me give it another go...I'm basically just using the neck joint and neck pickup section of the strat body as my new build's 'neck block'. ( since I have the body laying around, I might as well use it ) I will use some 1/8" walnut that I have for the back, sides, and possibly the top also. The main body will be somewhat like a cutaway 00 size, only thinner. It will have a strat neck pickup of some sort. It will also use the B-band UST, and SBT, along with the B-Band controls. It will also have a switch, and controls for the single coil, so I can quickly switch between it and the B-band acoustic source. It might work, it might not.
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Last edited by hat; 07-19-2018 at 11:46 AM.
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Old 07-19-2018, 11:46 AM
Rodger Knox Rodger Knox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hat View Post
What I'm wondering is, with such a small, tightly constrained top, how should it be braced to hold up, but still give a good acoustic tone through the B-Band.
The problem is that if you have adequate structure to avoid feedback when amplified, it's too stiff to have much acoustic volume. The one pictured hit the sweet spot, it's too stiff (and small) for any acoustic volume, but not stiff enough to avoid feedback when amplified. It's a compromise that didn't work acoustically or amplified. It's got a UST and an internal mic with an onboard preamp, no magnetic pickup.
What you're proposing will work fine amplified, but it will be challenged acoustically, and the bracing doesn't much matter.
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Old 07-19-2018, 11:57 AM
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I dont know if this directly relates, but I picked up a 12 string that is a kind of hybrid acoustic/electric. Its very much like a hollowed out Les Paul body, with a spruce top. It appears to be very traditionally X braced, so I’d suggest sticking with that. I cannot really see the outer edges of the body or where the top is attached because the depth is so shallow I haven’t been able to just look in. It doesn’t work very well purely acoustically, but is alot of fun plugged in -

Still haven’t found a case -

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...light=Cumpiano
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Old 07-19-2018, 12:24 PM
hat hat is offline
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https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...light=Cumpiano[/QUOTE]

Very close to what I am considering. Only with the electric component added in at the neck. I have no real intention of it ever being used as a strictly acoustic guitar, it's main purpose is being plugged in.
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Old 07-19-2018, 07:25 PM
Truckjohn Truckjohn is offline
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The second idea I have for this is serious - but sort of evil...

Channel your inner Ovation thinline. They are perhaps one of the best behaved and generally comfortable stage "acoustic electric" guitars ever...

It makes sense when you think about it... A reflective, unresponsive back.... A fairly thin, comfortable, small box, a fairly heavily braced top with a veneer layer and plenty of finish to damp out feedback... And wood bridge mounted with a K&K Pure Western piezo transducer..

All that adds up together to cut feedback but should still give you some of the woody sound you are after..

And if you can cut the feedback - you have a chance to pull it all together... And Ovations are fantastically well behaved on stage. They were the first successful stage "acoustic electric" guitar and still set the standard....

Brace pattern wise - either copy Ovation's.... Or channel a J-45 brace pattern with a wide X and a pair of tall, stiff, closely spaced tone bars. You are aiming for an extra dose of J-45 "Clunk" here... The intentional effort to cut sustain should go a long way to combat feedback...

On your back - extra arch and maybe add 2 extra back braces to make sure it's "Reflective"...

Last edited by Truckjohn; 07-19-2018 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 07-20-2018, 07:33 AM
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That Cumpiano 12-string looks really cool!

I was thinking along the lines of Ovation too. A heavy fan braced system for the purpose of playing plugged in. I imagine even that Cumpiano doesn't sound so great acoustically but since Bruce worked on it maybe he can say otherwise. If so I'd be impressed. The OP in that thread said it was braced liek a normal acoustic so I would assume X-Bracing.
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Old 07-20-2018, 07:47 AM
printer2 printer2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hat View Post
What I'm wondering is, with such a small, tightly constrained top, how should it be braced to hold up, but still give a good acoustic tone through the B-Band.
Basically you are going into relatively uncharted territory for most of us. The best I could advise is do a test setup with scrap wood. You are more in the realm of chambered guitars than regular acoustics. Speaking of, Fender did a version of their own, TLAC-100 Fender, and Washburn SBt21 is another.

Darn it, I had to go down in the basement and dug out my first 'guitar'. I built it as a practice guitar as I wanted something the size of an electric but with a little more acoustic volume. It is almost embarrassing looking back at the 'bracing' in the build thread but tuning it up and playing it a little it does exactly what I wanted to achieve. It was the inspiration that led me to make a real acoustic. Photobucket tried to ransom us and many old threads pictures are not visible but there is a fix for some browsers,

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=495301

And my slightly embarrassing first build thread.

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=275817
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Last edited by printer2; 07-20-2018 at 08:15 AM. Reason: Had to pull out the guitar.
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