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  #16  
Old 06-05-2023, 02:29 PM
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Doug Young Doug Young is offline
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Because I'm guessing that guitar part was recorded in stereo. And the project I'm working on is mostly going to be strumming, as far as acoustic guitar goes.
both your examples sound like mono to me, or at least *very* narrow stereo, perhaps with a touch of reverb on them to create some space.

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Also, do you mic a 12-string differently, since the "low" strings have octave strings that go with them, or the same way?
I wouldn't do anything different just because of a 12-string, but every guitar is different and may need some adjustments to mic placement.

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And again, I'm doing this in my garage, so I don't know how much "room noise" I'd need to eliminate with the "side" microphone.
An untreated garage is likely to be a pretty poor recording space, tho it depends on how professional you want your recording to sound. It's not "noise" that's the problem, it's the room acoustics and the effect that has on your sound. My home studio is in a garage, too, and I recorded what it sounded like when it was just a garage and then again after about 6 months of work on the acoustics. Your space may sound different, or you may not think the difference matters for what you're doing, but here's how that worked out in my garage:

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  #17  
Old 06-05-2023, 02:40 PM
MRich MRich is offline
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An untreated garage is likely to be a pretty poor recording space, tho it depends on how professional you want your recording to sound. It's not "noise" that's the problem, it's the room acoustics and the effect that has on your sound.
Yeah, but it's the only one I've got right now.

Though it does have a bunch of cardboard boxes and such in it, and I think they probably absorb a little of the sound. The way I usually set things up is I sit in a chair near the internal wall, with my back to the wall, so I'm facing the large garage door.

This is also one of the reasons I was wondering if I should go dynamic vs condenser.
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  #18  
Old 06-05-2023, 03:19 PM
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Yeah, but it's the only one I've got right now.

Though it does have a bunch of cardboard boxes and such in it, and I think they probably absorb a little of the sound. The way I usually set things up is I sit in a chair near the internal wall, with my back to the wall, so I'm facing the large garage door.

This is also one of the reasons I was wondering if I should go dynamic vs condenser.
I'd encourage you to try some different spaces and/or learn more about room acoustics. Cardboard boxes aren't going to help. Everyone wants to look at the "fun" stuff, like mics and mic positions and so on, but none of it matters if the room acoustics aren't good. It's the #1 problem for home recording, and comes up here time and time again. If you have good room acoustics you could make a decent simple 1-mic recording with your phone. With bad acoustics, no amount of gear is going to help.
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  #19  
Old 06-05-2023, 08:28 PM
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On the condenser vs dynamic mic question, as well as placement, check out this video (which isn't in the main tutorial thread). Lots of examples using numerous types of mics and placement. As you'll see, there are no "right" answers:

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  #20  
Old 06-05-2023, 09:36 PM
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Yeah, but it's the only one I've got right now.

Though it does have a bunch of cardboard boxes and such in it, and I think they probably absorb a little of the sound. The way I usually set things up is I sit in a chair near the internal wall, with my back to the wall, so I'm facing the large garage door.

This is also one of the reasons I was wondering if I should go dynamic vs condenser.
I'm a big fan of Doug Fearn's podcast series, "My take on Music Recording".

You might be interested in his podcast "Recording In Improvised Spaces".
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  #21  
Old 06-05-2023, 10:48 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Though it does have a bunch of cardboard boxes and such in it, and I think they probably absorb a little of the sound.
As I wrote in the beginner's guide, "Room treatment is boring. There are no lights, no dials, no knobs, no meters. Room treatment isn’t sexy. Room treatment just hangs around looking like it’s doing nothing. But almost everyone who has been at this for a long time will say with absolutely zero exaggeration… nothing will help your recordings sound better than properly treating your recording space. Nothing. Not expensive microphones or interfaces or anything else."

It bears repeating... with absolutely zero exaggeration. That doesn't mean you need to treat the entire garage. You can make a portable space within a space. Most of us aren't going to achieve a perfectly tuned space in our home studios and that doesn't need to be the goal, but we can make our spaces better and better spaces lend themselves to better recordings.
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  #22  
Old 06-06-2023, 10:03 AM
MRich MRich is offline
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Originally Posted by Chipotle View Post
On the condenser vs dynamic mic question, as well as placement, check out this video (which isn't in the main tutorial thread). Lots of examples using numerous types of mics and placement. As you'll see, there are no "right" answers:

Thanks for the video, Chipotle. I'll check that out and see.

I've got something in mind, experimentation wise, I want to try, maybe. I don't even know if it's gonna work.
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  #23  
Old 06-06-2023, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by MRich View Post
Yeah, but it's the only one I've got right now.

Though it does have a bunch of cardboard boxes and such in it, and I think they probably absorb a little of the sound. The way I usually set things up is I sit in a chair near the internal wall, with my back to the wall, so I'm facing the large garage door.

This is also one of the reasons I was wondering if I should go dynamic vs condenser.
Almost anything you can do to tamp down the echo in that space will improve your recordings. Going to stop myself before going on a rant.... BUT, for most home recorders, half the battle is signal-to-noise, so (with acoustic instruments and voice) mic placement and room treatment are the two tools you have, and you must use both to get the best sound.

Now, room "treatment" can be doing nothing when you have a great space, but an unfinished garage is not that. So, IMHO, if you have enough money for an SM57, you have enough to buy a stack of moving blankets from Harbor Freight or similar, and I'd tack them up double-thickness behind you and put some on the side walls and maybe one or two overhead. In a bare room, you want to stop, or at least reduce as much as possible, extraneous room sounds from getting to the mic. The cardioid pattern will pick up everything coming from you, and also from behind, beside and above/below [you], i.e., that pattern is 3 dimensional, not flat like the printed spec sheet! Because the space is untreated, and has parallel surfaces, every sound/frequency will continue to bounce back and forth until it loses all of its energy. You help it lose energy faster by putting sound-absorbing material in the path, and behind you is likely the most effective if that's the closest wall. (Cardboard boxes, unless filled with stuff, will not stop, or even diffuse, much.)

You have to experiment, but until you hear what the room is doing to the recordings, you're pushing a rope with mic placement testing.
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  #24  
Old 06-07-2023, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
I'd encourage you to try some different spaces and/or learn more about room acoustics. Cardboard boxes aren't going to help. Everyone wants to look at the "fun" stuff, like mics and mic positions and so on, but none of it matters if the room acoustics aren't good. It's the #1 problem for home recording, and comes up here time and time again. If you have good room acoustics you could make a decent simple 1-mic recording with your phone. With bad acoustics, no amount of gear is going to help.
I do want to note that the garage is "finished", in that it has sheetrock interior walls (except for the large garage door, and the door from the garage into the house). When I say I have cardboard boxes in there, I mean they're also full of stuff (don't know if that matters any or not). I've also got plastic tubs, a bicycle, and a smoker in there. A bunch of stuff I suppose that sound could "bounce off" of.

Another reason I use my garage is I work remotely, and my family is at home all the time. So they're always in and out of rooms. The garage is just easiest right now.
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  #25  
Old 06-07-2023, 03:50 PM
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I do want to note that the garage is "finished", in that it has sheetrock interior walls (except for the large garage door, and the door from the garage into the house). When I say I have cardboard boxes in there, I mean they're also full of stuff (don't know if that matters any or not). I've also got plastic tubs, a bicycle, and a smoker in there. A bunch of stuff I suppose that sound could "bounce off" of.

Another reason I use my garage is I work remotely, and my family is at home all the time. So they're always in and out of rooms. The garage is just easiest right now.
Got it, that's actually the most common scenario for people doing home recording - dealing with everything from people and animals around the house, to the household noises, washing machines, refrigerators, leaf blowers and lawn mowers, etc - the sounds of life :-), plus add in traffic and airplanes overhead. Many of us record late at night after family's asleep, traffic has died down, etc.

As far as the garage walls, also expected. The demo I posted for you was the same, sheetrock, garage door, door into the house, random garage junk laying around. Not likely to be a good sounding room without doing something to address the acoustics.

There's a whole range of expectations and results with home recording, and a lot depends on what quality you want, how much you want to spend, and how much you care to learn about recording - it's a hobby/field of study in itself, and not everyone cares to invest the money or the time. If you just want a quick demo of your songs that you can show friends, your phone laying on the coffee table will do a credible job these days! Having the kids making noise in the background will just make it more personal :-) If you want better than that, you'll likely have to deal with the room acoustics issue one way or another. If recording isn't something you plan on getting deeply into, or you just can't address the acoustics for one reason or another, or your house is just never quiet enough, etc, consider just going to a commercial studio. You can likely find a decent local studio for under $50/hour. You'll probably spend less to do the kind of project you're describing than the cost of a few good mics, and get far better results.

This topic of room acoustics comes up here once or twice a week. As Jim says, no one wants to invest the time or money, as it's not sexy. But it's the key to a good sound, far more important than any piece of gear.
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  #26  
Old 06-07-2023, 05:35 PM
MRich MRich is offline
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Got it, that's actually the most common scenario for people doing home recording - dealing with everything from people and animals around the house, to the household noises, washing machines, refrigerators, leaf blowers and lawn mowers, etc - the sounds of life :-), plus add in traffic and airplanes overhead. Many of us record late at night after family's asleep, traffic has died down, etc.

As far as the garage walls, also expected. The demo I posted for you was the same, sheetrock, garage door, door into the house, random garage junk laying around. Not likely to be a good sounding room without doing something to address the acoustics.

There's a whole range of expectations and results with home recording, and a lot depends on what quality you want, how much you want to spend, and how much you care to learn about recording - it's a hobby/field of study in itself, and not everyone cares to invest the money or the time. If you just want a quick demo of your songs that you can show friends, your phone laying on the coffee table will do a credible job these days! Having the kids making noise in the background will just make it more personal :-) If you want better than that, you'll likely have to deal with the room acoustics issue one way or another. If recording isn't something you plan on getting deeply into, or you just can't address the acoustics for one reason or another, or your house is just never quiet enough, etc, consider just going to a commercial studio. You can likely find a decent local studio for under $50/hour. You'll probably spend less to do the kind of project you're describing than the cost of a few good mics, and get far better results.

This topic of room acoustics comes up here once or twice a week. As Jim says, no one wants to invest the time or money, as it's not sexy. But it's the key to a good sound, far more important than any piece of gear.
Thanks again, Doug.

When I put out my first release, I just did vocals, because I used Band in a Box for backing tracks, because it was lyrics that I wrote.

When I recorded them, I did so in my garage. I used a pop filter and my Oktava MK319 for vocals. I used Reaper as my DAW, and "edited out" the room noise with one of the built-in Reaper tools.
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  #27  
Old 06-07-2023, 06:24 PM
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Well, give it a try. Have you recorded anything yet? Maybe you'll like the sound you get with the guitar, you never know.
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  #28  
Old 06-08-2023, 04:22 AM
MRich MRich is offline
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Well, give it a try. Have you recorded anything yet? Maybe you'll like the sound you get with the guitar, you never know.
I haven't yet. I've gotta get out there and do it, and see if I can find what works.
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