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  #31  
Old 12-09-2020, 08:22 AM
Marley Marley is offline
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What we learned from the Gibson vs PRS suit is that the confusion between the two products must be had at the point of purchase. It can't be a claim that from the back of the club I thought he was playing a Gibson LP so I went and bought one and then found out it was actually a PRS he was playing.

A few years ago there was a lawsuit against Red Strip beer. About 6 years ago, they started brewing it in Latrobe, PA instead of Kingston, JA for the US market and two Cali dudes sued. They stated that at the point of purchase, they thought they were buying imported Jamaican beer. It was eventually thrown out (not exactly sure the cause), but fortunately Red Stripe decided to go back to all Jamaican beer. If that suit got thrown out and the PRS one, I don't know how these companies like Gibson win any of these lawsuits. Because you have to be some special kind of stupid to be buying a PRS or a H&D or a Heritage and at the point of purchase, you think you're buying a Gibson LP.
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  #32  
Old 12-09-2020, 09:51 AM
maplebaby maplebaby is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marley View Post
What we learned from the Gibson vs PRS suit is that the confusion between the two products must be had at the point of purchase. It can't be a claim that from the back of the club I thought he was playing a Gibson LP so I went and bought one and then found out it was actually a PRS he was playing.

A few years ago there was a lawsuit against Red Strip beer. About 6 years ago, they started brewing it in Latrobe, PA instead of Kingston, JA for the US market and two Cali dudes sued. They stated that at the point of purchase, they thought they were buying imported Jamaican beer. It was eventually thrown out (not exactly sure the cause), but fortunately Red Stripe decided to go back to all Jamaican beer. If that suit got thrown out and the PRS one, I don't know how these companies like Gibson win any of these lawsuits. Because you have to be some special kind of stupid to be buying a PRS or a H&D or a Heritage and at the point of purchase, you think you're buying a Gibson LP.

Thanks for this post...great information in helping to understand how the legal side of this issue works, appreciated!
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  #33  
Old 12-09-2020, 10:50 AM
gr81dorn gr81dorn is offline
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I was just sorta bored and disappointed when they teased these for months and posted about them on the socials. I kinda get the desire to make "[insert brand here]'s version of a D18", like all major players seem to do in the acoustic guitar space, but electric guitars offer SO MUCH MORE freedom to design and improvise. This is just disappointing to me. I'm sure it sounds great (some of the best humbuckers around in this one will do that....can also do that in the crappiest guitar around...I've done it a lot). I just appreciate any level of innovation or personalization and these have none.

Collings does electric guitars right, in my opinion. You can CLEARLY see the inspirations of most of the models, but they have implemented their own (slight to significant) changes to the shapes, contours, playability upgrades, they make cool and unique knobs, use great hardware, etc. It's ok to nod to the legendary Les Paul, but a straight copy is just underwhelming from a shop I think has so much more to offer than that.

On the other hand completely - Beard has made a few electric guitars - a solidbody and a semi-hollow (at least from what I've seen...maybe more). And they followed closer to Collings' model of "homage to the classics, but make it your own". I really like the looks and if they're anything like other Beard stuff I've played, should be fantastic.

This H&D is a surely a fine guitar, just not at all inspiring to me and I think a real missed opportunity.
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  #34  
Old 12-09-2020, 11:12 AM
Marley Marley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gr81dorn View Post
I was just sorta bored and disappointed when they teased these for months and posted about them on the socials. I kinda get the desire to make "[insert brand here]'s version of a D18", like all major players seem to do in the acoustic guitar space, but electric guitars offer SO MUCH MORE freedom to design and improvise. This is just disappointing to me. I'm sure it sounds great (some of the best humbuckers around in this one will do that....can also do that in the crappiest guitar around...I've done it a lot). I just appreciate any level of innovation or personalization and these have none.

Collings does electric guitars right, in my opinion. You can CLEARLY see the inspirations of most of the models, but they have implemented their own (slight to significant) changes to the shapes, contours, playability upgrades, they make cool and unique knobs, use great hardware, etc. It's ok to nod to the legendary Les Paul, but a straight copy is just underwhelming from a shop I think has so much more to offer than that.

On the other hand completely - Beard has made a few electric guitars - a solidbody and a semi-hollow (at least from what I've seen...maybe more). And they followed closer to Collings' model of "homage to the classics, but make it your own". I really like the looks and if they're anything like other Beard stuff I've played, should be fantastic.

This H&D is a surely a fine guitar, just not at all inspiring to me and I think a real missed opportunity.
Great points and when I first thought of innovation and really "re-thinking" the electric guitar and starting down a new path, I did not expect a LP replica. It juts reminds me of how brave, innovative and inspiring Ernie Ball Music Man is. Just look at the road these guys have decided to travel with their electric guitars. Here is a company that is truly trying to rethink the electric guitar and at least come up with new and interesting designs such as the Majesty, Armada, Mariposa, St. Vincent, Albert Lee etc..
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  #35  
Old 12-10-2020, 10:18 AM
gr81dorn gr81dorn is offline
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Originally Posted by Marley View Post
Great points and when I first thought of innovation and really "re-thinking" the electric guitar and starting down a new path, I did not expect a LP replica. It juts reminds me of how brave, innovative and inspiring Ernie Ball Music Man is. Just look at the road these guys have decided to travel with their electric guitars. Here is a company that is truly trying to rethink the electric guitar and at least come up with new and interesting designs such as the Majesty, Armada, Mariposa, St. Vincent, Albert Lee etc..
And if you know the history of the EB/Music Man company and the relationship with Leo Fender and George Fullerton, they HAD to be innovative and different to disassociate with Fender Guitars and they created some really unique and, to me, iconic instruments by doing so. Ultimately, some things don't even stray wildly from some of the classic Fender designs, but really benefit from the freedom to not have to follow the existing blueprint.

I LOVE what Dennis Fano, for example, has done in his career - his first company (Fano) was really about "how can we take the things we love about the existing legendary guitars (strats, teles, LP, SG, Danos, etc) and then let's mash it all up and make a bunch of hybrids and crossovers. LOVED THAT. Then he also came up with some really crazy and unique designs (see his aluminum stuff from that era). Then when he sold Fano, he started his current company, NOVO, which is simply brilliant in my opionion - there is ONE shape, which is a unique design that incorporates kinda everything we all love about a bunch of different guitars and then he can work just about any incarnation of pickups, bridges, hardware, contours, etc to create an amazing instrument unlike the next one.
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  #36  
Old 12-10-2020, 01:08 PM
gr81dorn gr81dorn is offline
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No sooner do I praise the Novo single shape platform than they announce a new shape lol. It's kinda offset reverse firebird-ish. Pretty cool. Again...inventive and unique. I want more of that from great builders.
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  #37  
Old 12-11-2020, 12:01 PM
Marley Marley is offline
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I agree, I want more innovation and guts from the other companies. It never ceases to amaze me to see a Anderson or Suhr that's simply a copy of a 60 or 70 year old body style. I don't know if either has one unique design that's their own. They are simply high quality replicas. I applaud Novo for their designs. I don't like them but I applaud them big time. They remind me of the old cheap Italian guitars. Kind of similar to the blue one G Love used to play. Or Dan from The Black Keys.

And yes, EBMM did have to be inventive but we're talking about the 1970's. Fast forward to 2020, and they have not given up as they continue to put out designs that few other companies have the guts to do. I happen to have two EBMM Axis Sports and in my opinion, the Axis body style is the best electric body style out there. Kind of a mix between a Tele and maybe a LP. Although, I do think Eddie did well when he went to Peavy and then Fender and used the same body style but just offset it. I do like the offset Axis looking body. I also think a Tele looks great. I used to think PRS had the coolest body shape but it's worn thin on me over the years especially the 80's style horned headstock. I prefer the Santana headstock. Their body shape is still nice but I like the Axis body better.
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  #38  
Old 12-11-2020, 04:20 PM
rockabilly69 rockabilly69 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marley View Post
I agree, I want more innovation and guts from the other companies. It never ceases to amaze me to see a Anderson or Suhr that's simply a copy of a 60 or 70 year old body style. I don't know if either has one unique design that's their own. They are simply high quality replicas. I applaud Novo for their designs. I don't like them but I applaud them big time. They remind me of the old cheap Italian guitars. Kind of similar to the blue one G Love used to play. Or Dan from The Black Keys.

And yes, EBMM did have to be inventive but we're talking about the 1970's. Fast forward to 2020, and they have not given up as they continue to put out designs that few other companies have the guts to do. I happen to have two EBMM Axis Sports and in my opinion, the Axis body style is the best electric body style out there. Kind of a mix between a Tele and maybe a LP. Although, I do think Eddie did well when he went to Peavy and then Fender and used the same body style but just offset it. I do like the offset Axis looking body. I also think a Tele looks great. I used to think PRS had the coolest body shape but it's worn thin on me over the years especially the 80's style horned headstock. I prefer the Santana headstock. Their body shape is still nice but I like the Axis body better.
What I like about Musicman is the finish they use on the back of their necks, it's perhaps the best I've ever felt, it never sticks! But I can't stand the look of their 4+2 headstock, they look like toys to me and many of their body styles do too! Everytime I play one though I am impressed with their sound.
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  #39  
Old 12-12-2020, 05:13 PM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
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Lovely guitar! And it sounds wonderful! Thanks for that!

- Glenn
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  #40  
Old 12-12-2020, 09:50 PM
maplebaby maplebaby is offline
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Lovely guitar! And it sounds wonderful! Thanks for that!

- Glenn
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