Not worth it?

jcribeiro · #1 06-12-2010, 06:35 AM

Hello every, I'm relatively new to this forum and I must say, the best forum I've ever joined. Excellent.

I haven't picked up my guitar since I was in my early 20's. I'm 52 now and decided to try again. I have an OLD Yamaha FG200, still in its original cardboard case. Thought for sure it was trash and went out shopping for something new. While at the guitar shop, thought I might as well pick up some new strings and in the meantime start rebuilding the callouses. Yamaha's are very good for that purpose.

When I cleaned it up, put the new strings on ... I couldn't believe the sound. Superb. I had tried guitars in the $1500+ range, nothing I'd tried in the shops was like it. I made a bone nut and saddle for it, took it a local tech to have the nut cut and installed ... even better sound. However, it won't stay in tune. The tech says the neck pitch is so far out that there is nothing that can be done and the he says the guitar is not worth the cost of a neck reset.

Opinions and options from this vastly more experienced group would be greatly appreciated. I don't want to get rid of it. Thanks to all in advance.

John Ribeiro

runamuck · #2 06-12-2010, 07:06 AM

Your guitar tech is right: a neck reset will cost more than the guitar is worth
and getting a reset will not make your instrument valuable. So from a financial
perspective, it doesn't make any sense.

But if you love the guitar, perhaps it does make sense to put money into it.
But I doubt it. There are plenty of guitars out there for approximately the price of a neck reset that sound better than a Yamaha, in my opinion.

Jim McCarthy

jcribeiro · #3 06-12-2010, 07:13 AM

Thanks for the feedback. Just hoping there is some clever solution out there.

barrangatan · #4 06-12-2010, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcribeiro

However, it won't stay in tune. The tech says the neck pitch is so far out that there is nothing that can be done and the he says the guitar is not worth the cost of a neck reset.
John Ribeiro

John - I can definitely see how the neck angle on these old Yamaha can get out of whack. I've played many old FGs in the past couple years and very few actually had a decent neck angle. However - and not to contradict what your tech's diagnosis is as I'm far from being a professional in this area - I am also curious if the issue with the guitar not staying in tune has more to do with the tuners on the guitar, than with the neck angle. Have you tried putting some replacement tuners on it? If you can find some decent Grovers at a good price, it may be worth experimenting with it to see if the results improve, as you really have nothing to lose.

As many others will share with you here: A neck reset on a Yamaha is really not worth the money. Neck reset can cost anywhere from $250-$600 depending on the luthier and the area you're in. So it's a procedure that's usually reserved for high-dollar vintage instruments. However, if you are the adventurous sort, and are good with your hands - as I suspect you are, since you made your own nut and saddle - you may want to learn how to perform a neck reset on your own. I did two recently, one on a FG-140 that was a disaster, and the second a FG-160 that turned out much better. It was absolutely nowhere near semi-professional level work, but it definitely changed the FG-160 from a almost unplayable instrument into a very comfortable playing guitar. And I can tell you that a FG-200 *is* worth the effort

Good luck to you

jcribeiro · #5 06-13-2010, 09:46 AM

I was actually in the process of shopping around for tuners. As for trying the neck reset myself ... did some reading and for the time being ... not for me yet. You sound like someone who likes Yamaha's. Not many of us around. This particular FG-200 has a really lovely sound, after just lying in it's case for around 25 years. I whatever I do, I won't just discard it. Too many memories that go with it.

barrangatan · #6 06-13-2010, 12:50 PM

One of the first Yamaha FG I got when the case of Yamaha craze set in, was a FG-200 that someone had bought new in the 70's then kept it in a closet for most of its life. The sale tag was still on the guitar and it looked practically new. The sound was big and resonant, though the action was on the high side.

There are actually quite a few Yamaha lovers here on the forum. Many have found the FG730S to be one of the best all solid wood guitar out there on the market for under $500. So definitely head over to the General Discussion and check out what's going on there. If memory serves there have already been 2 recent discussions regarding an older model FG (FG-365S) in the past week.

A big welcome to the forum!

Coke_zero · #7 06-13-2010, 02:08 PM

An alternative albeit a risky option would be to find a novice tech who will do it for free as a practice guitar. He/she may do a great job or ruin it, either way you won't lose anything as it is unplayable as it is.

Joe F · #8 06-13-2010, 02:13 PM

I've had my old Yamaha FG-something or other for about 30 years now...and I bought it used!

It still sounds pretty good, but like yours, the neck is so far gone that even though the saddle barely peeks up over the bridge, you could drive a truck under the strings at the 12th fret.

I keep it under the bed at my mother in law's house just to have something to make noise with whenever we visit.

jcribeiro · #9 06-14-2010, 06:22 AM

That is a great suggestion. Thank you very much. I'm off to hunt one down. This will kill 2 birds with one stone. I can get it done free or at least cheap and watch the process and learn.

Bob V · #10 06-16-2010, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coke_zero

An alternative albeit a risky option would be to find a novice tech who will do it for free as a practice guitar. He/she may do a great job or ruin it, either way you won't lose anything as it is unplayable as it is.

Not for anything, but it's possible the tech who did the nut and suggested a neck reset was the novice? Doesn't make sense that tuning problems would be diagnosed based on the neck angle. Granted, the neck angle is very important for the action and playability, and a high action means intonation can be off, but "won't stay in tune"?

The first three things to look at when a guitar is hard to keep in tune are (1) the nut, (2) the nut, and (3) the nut! New tuners are rarely necessary. Sounds odd that the same tech who cut your nut slots is blaming something else for the difficulty keeping the guitar in tune.

I could be way off base here, of course, since the tech has seen the guitar and I havent. But it's worthwhile to get a second opinion on those nut slots -they could be binding the strings and creating the tuning woes. Meanwhile try some pencil graphite or Big Bends Nut Sauce or Guitar Grease to lubricate the nut slots.

Allman_Fan · #11 06-16-2010, 10:37 AM

I don't understand "won't STAY in tune."

Do you mean that they action is so high in the middle of the neck, you can't get it to play in tune at the middle of the neck, when it is tuned with respect to the open strings?

If not, what "changes" to make the tuning change?

You could always make it a slide guitar. Better yet, mail it to me. The shipping won't cost you much and it will have happy, productive golden years. I'll even send you pictures to let you know how we are doing. Your guitar deserves it . . do the right thing.

arie · #12 06-16-2010, 10:38 AM

do you have any pics?

sharkydude50 · #13 06-16-2010, 01:09 PM

JCR- Here's another idea (for getting around a neck reset)
First, adjust the truss rod to get the neck to zero relief (IOW-perfectly straight- use a metal straight edge, like a level, place it on the frets from one to where ever it will reach, and make sure it lays flat on top of them all- that's zero relief).
Once you get adjusted to zero relief- place the same metal straight edge, starting on top of the 1st fret, and note/mark where it hits the bridge. If it is just slightly below (forget the exact amount) the bridge you may be able to remove (sand down) some of the wood off the bridge and forego a neck reset altogether.

I used this method on my old Martin Sigma and it worked well. Only issue was the resultant groove in the bridge (for the saddle to sit in) was too shallow to support it. I then sanded down the saddle, but it would have been better to have a deeper groove routered into the existing saddle (since the bridge was still thick enough to handle a deeper saddle groove).

I hope someone else will be able to supply the whole process for you if the issue is truly one of a bad neck angle and not something else.

cravinbob · #14 06-17-2010, 04:29 AM

I would like to see it. I have been repairing for several years along with building. 55 years old and played since I was 10.
I would do a repair for no charge and will not tackle something that is beyond me or too destructive or risky.
I have done quite a few repairs on cheaply made guitars that sounded and played great afterward.
A great sounding guitar is worth fixing, and too many people have been led down the path of 'vintage' equals good. Some people can pick up a cheap guitar and make it sing while others sit around listing their guitars in forum signatures (if Taylor is listed you have a novice).
Let me know if it is not too late

Fatstrat · #15 06-20-2010, 07:46 AM

What condition is the top in? Is it good and flat looking, or dished a little (or alot) in front of the bridge? A dished top, another problem caused by the pressure of tight strings over extended storage periods, can of course effect the alignment of the neck. And installing a Bridge Doctor, which is fairly cheap and easy to install yourself, can help a lot.