Chord Changes - Need Help!

[JMYMusic]

Folks, cannot thank you enough for all of the great information! Although I had tried some of the tips previously, there are a few new suggestions that make a lot of sense and should help quite a bit.

I'll post results after I have given some of these techniques a try.

Again, thank you and Happy Father's Day to all the Dads out there!

[pvfederico]

...so I'm not going to try.

But, I am an old guy who started at 65 and is now 74. I get noticeably better every year -- mostly finger style. Don't give up; it will come.

The only things that I sometimes think are affected by my age, are songs that have a lots of verses, and a heavy strum (like Bob Dylan's "Shelter from the Storm.") Sometimes I get tired, and lose some rhythm before the song ends.

Here's a video that should be inspirational for you -- one of my favorite Mexican songs played by an old master:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjLOsZ22keg

[zztush]

We hover the finger tips in chord shapes before touch the strings (see the figurer below). Unless we can do it, we cannot get all fingers to land on the frets at the same time. This happens in piano and other instruments too. Hence the problem might be each chord (shape forming) instead of chord changes.

[JMYMusic]

Originally Posted by pvfederico

...so I'm not going to try.

But, I am an old guy who started at 65 and is now 74. I get noticeably better every year -- mostly finger style. Don't give up; it will come.

The only things that I sometimes think are affected by my age, are songs that have a lots of verses, and a heavy strum (like Bob Dylan's "Shelter from the Storm.") Sometimes I get tired, and lose some rhythm before the song ends.

Here's a video that should be inspirational for you -- one of my favorite Mexican songs played by an old master:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjLOsZ22keg

Thanks very much...that was inspiring, entertaining, and beautiful to watch!

[JMYMusic]

Thanks! I think you are on to something with this, as I've experimented with getting the shapes right before touching the strings and it has not been easy. Seems to correlate directly with muscle memory.

[cliff_the_stiff]

Originally Posted by JMYMusic

Thanks! I think you are on to something with this, as I've experimented with getting the shapes right before touching the strings and it has not been easy. Seems to correlate directly with muscle memory.

Some things I have found- We don’t always need to pull all the fingers off and put them back on in chord changes.
For instance G Mag (incorporating the ring finger on string 2 fret 3)
The ring finger can remain in place for a D transition and back- like pivoting on the ring finger.
Am, CMaj, F all used the index finger on the 2 nd string and you don’t need to pick it up between these chord changes.

A trick I use to familiarize myself with which fingers to move is playing the progression backwards to see the shape similarity.

[BadWithNames]

Back to the OP - are there specific chords or transitions that are giving you trouble? There might be some special tricks to get you over the hump. Hope I’m not repeating stuff you know, but these are things that helped me recently.

I think it’s best to focus on chords within a key that you might use in a song. E.g., A D and E can be troublesome if you use the A chord that most of the books show. Switching up the fingers To ring index middle on strings 2 3 4 lets you keep one finger in place as you move between those three.

For G C and D, you can also try substituting Cadd9 and Dsus4? so you can just keep the ring and pinky planted on strings 1 and 2.

I also found this useful:
Erich Andreas youtube lesson

Good luck!

[JMYMusic]

Originally Posted by BadWithNames

Back to the OP - are there specific chords or transitions that are giving you trouble? There might be some special tricks to get you over the hump. Hope I’m not repeating stuff you know, but these are things that helped me recently.

I think it’s best to focus on chords within a key that you might use in a song. E.g., A D and E can be troublesome if you use the A chord that most of the books show. Switching up the fingers To ring index middle on strings 2 3 4 lets you keep one finger in place as you move between those three.

For G C and D, you can also try substituting Cadd9 and Dsus4? so you can just keep the ring and pinky planted on strings 1 and 2.

I also found this useful:
Erich Andreas youtube lesson

Good luck!

Thanks!

Interesting suggestion and I can give you a couple of examples where my ring finger lags the others. Those chords would be D, G, and C. Interestingly, this does not happen when I move to A or E from another chord...ring finger is right there with the others, probably due to the middle and ring fingers being close together for those shapes. It seems like whenever the ring finger stretches to another fret, it lags.

I looked at the youtube video and his suggestions are similar to the "anchor finger" concept Justin Guitar covers. A good example is changing from D to A to E, where the index finger stays on the G string and only has to move over one fret for the E chord. These chord changes present no difficulties for me.

One of the suggestions/exercises, which was also made elsewhere in this thread was to build the chord from the lowest (root) note first without strumming. Definitely worth trying.

I have quite a few chords memorized, so if I slow down a bit and visualize where the fingers will be going from one chord to another, that should help as well.

[RickRS]

Originally Posted by Chipotle

Others have alluded to it, but I'll say the secret out loud: your fingers don't have to all land at the same time! Even experienced guitarists don't do it all the time.

We're all repeating this, just worded a little different.

Yes, those guys that seem to have it worked out and seems so smooth and fast? It's all just using "just-in-time" to getting those strings fretted. You only have to depress the string(s) just as you pick or pluck it/them. And typically you need the bass root note before the others. Don't sweat trying to have the whole chord fretted at the same time when you only need is the root at that instant.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by RickRS

We're all repeating this, just worded a little different.

Yes, those guys that seem to have it worked out and seems so smooth and fast? It's all just using "just-in-time" to getting those strings fretted. You only have to depress the string(s) just as you pick or pluck it/them. And typically you need the bass root note before the others. Don't sweat trying to have the whole chord fretted at the same time when you only need is the root at that instant.

Get the chord shape ready as you move to it from the previous chord and you can land all the fingers as a unit. That generally is the best way to do it (with the exception perhaps of using some guide finger that is on the same string in both chords).

[stanron]

If you look at the original post JMYMusic is saying that because he can't get all fingers into position at once his chords don't sound cleanly.

To get all your fingers correctly in position before they hit the strings requires a specific kind of dexterity. Anyone can learn to do it but at 63 it won't be as fast as it would have been at, say, 13.

I can't think of any other activity in life that might have prepared you for doing this. Touch typing comes close. It requires individual finger control at a high level but it is one finger at a time. Guitar chords require two, three or four fingers to move into specific positions and hold those positions in the air above the strings before contact. That's what produces fast clean chord changes.

That's what you have to practice. Hold your fingers in position just above the strings for one chord and then hold them in position just above the strings for a second chord. Spend a little time in each practice session doing that for all your chords. Not all your time, just a little.

The business of leading with one finger can be useful but I've always seen that as a more advanced technique for more advanced types of playing. Contact free finger positioning on basic open chords is a prerequisite.

[JMYMusic]

Originally Posted by stanron

If you look at the original post JMYMusic is saying that because he can't get all fingers into position at once his chords don't sound cleanly.

To get all your fingers correctly in position before they hit the strings requires a specific kind of dexterity. Anyone can learn to do it but at 63 it won't be as fast as it would have been at, say, 13.

I can't think of any other activity in life that might have prepared you for doing this. Touch typing comes close. It requires individual finger control at a high level but it is one finger at a time. Guitar chords require two, three or four fingers to move into specific positions and hold those positions in the air above the strings before contact. That's what produces fast clean chord changes.

That's what you have to practice. Hold your fingers in position just above the strings for one chord and then hold them in position just above the strings for a second chord. Spend a little time in each practice session doing that for all your chords. Not all your time, just a little.

The business of leading with one finger can be useful but I've always seen that as a more advanced technique for more advanced types of playing. Contact free finger positioning on basic open chords is a prerequisite.

I like this suggestion, as it goes along with the often-recommended visualization.

I also hear those who have emphasized the "just in time" concept, which is perfectly fine as well.

Looking forward to integrating many of these great ideas into my practice routine.

[zztush]

Hi, JMYMusic! I once taught ukulele a elementary school girl. Ukulele's G chord is D chord in guitar. She could not locate her ring finger on the board. She pinched her left ring finger by her right fingers (see the photo below) and made the chord. Making chord is very hard even elementary school girl, because it requires unusual finger moves. Me and her father smiled at her at that time. She could play the cord next week.



Justin Guitar shows good and wrong shape of C chord. In his video lesson, we can see the relationship between hover and good shape. It may be a good hint for you. If we think, review and experiment at anytime, practice is always fun. :-))

[JonPR]

I really like justin's lessons, but the moment in the video where you see that first image - that you've labelled "hover" - is seriously misleading. The thumb position is totally wrong.
Obviously he is in the middle of demonstrating something about finger angle, but I've seen plenty of beginners who adopt that thumb position instinctively. The last thing we need is an image that makes it look like a professional is recommending it!

Secondly I don't entirely agree that the first position - fingers parallel with the frets - is wrong. It's true that it means more of a stretch, but to arrange the fingers too much the other way means the ring finger risks muting the 4th string. It has to reach further to get to the 5th string, so will naturally straighten out.

Classical left hand position certainly recommends getting the fingers parallel with the frets as a standard starting point. One might sometimes have to arrange them at an angle, but parallel to the frets is (at least) a way to ensure you have the neck at the right angle to start with.

Naturally, with the guitar on the right leg, the neck is more horizontal, but it should still be angled up a little, to put the left hand in just about the same positon as on classical guitar.

But justin makes a couple of other good points. Video here

Firstly the fingers "pointing at my eyes" (2:04). This is a good tip generally, but it also works if you have the neck higher, which in turn makes it easier for the fingers to be more parallel with the frets, which also makes it easier to get that ring finger tip more upright on the string, avoiding the 4th string.

IOW, it's a good idea (if you do find the ring is muting the 4th (or the middle is muting the 3rd) to actually push the fingers more towards a parallel position - the one you've labelled "wrong" - in order to find the optimum position, where all 5 strings ring clearly, but the hand doesn't feel awkardly stretched.

Secondly, it's a nice point - which I've not seen recommended before! - to get the tip of the ring to mute the 6th. This serves two purposes: (1) saves having to get the thumb over to mute it; (2) means the finger might be far enough away from the 4th to avoid muting that one. I.e., it helps deal with the above issue too.

IOW, there's a balance to be struck here. The essential thing is that all 5 strings ring cleanly - no finger is touching a string it shouldn't be. That means the fingers need to be curled, so the tips come down at right angles to the frets - not necessarily to the strings. I.e, the fingertip can lean towards the nut (parallel to the strings) if it has to, but should not lean towards the next string (where it risks muting it). Right angles to both is ideal (perpendicular to the fretboard), but can't be achieved with every finger on every string.
In the C chord, the index and middle can easily be arranged 90 degrees to both string and fret, but the ring will necessarily lean a little simply because it reaches further.
Muting the 6th is a secondary thing, but worth bearing in mind.

Here's a group of images showing the ideal C major chord shape hand position.

The fingers are on a slight slope, but less than justin was demonstrating. Still should be "pointing at the eyes." None of those show the ring touching the 6th string, but that's an easy enough adjustment to make. The main point is to show how the fingers need to curl to get the fingertip angle correct. The hand can often relax from this position - into something more like justin's shape - provided no string (other than the 6th) is muted.
In fact most players will probably allow the thumb to come way over the top when playing this shape, cradling the neck in the palm. But to begin with, it's good to aim for this shape (thumb on back, space between neck and palm) to encourage the fingers to curl in right way, rather than reach out straight, as beginners' fingers often do.

[NormanKliman]

You guys are addressing all the issues, especially JonPR in the above post. Dude, where do you get all the hand images?
I’m glad to see this, in particular:

Originally Posted by JonPR

...(thumb on back, space between neck and palm) to encourage the fingers to curl in right way...

The necks in those four images look a little wider than usual (bottom two are nylon). About cradling the neck in the palm, Hendrix and others played/play that way, so it can’t be all bad, especially with a narrower neck. But it’s best to gain the strength to not have to play that way, because your music is absolutely going to sound a lot better. It won’t happen without years of discipline, and once you get it, you can always “cradle” certain ideas that work better that way (bends, etc.)