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  #31  
Old 07-25-2013, 02:31 AM
Tom West Tom West is offline
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Who wants to do the refretting on these babies.................???
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  #32  
Old 07-25-2013, 02:39 AM
lennylux lennylux is offline
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Aside form the 'who will do the refret?' issue... the other side to the same argument, how much is a refret going to cost based on the increased hassle involved.

It may work for some things, but not for others (alternate tunings, gauges etc), it certainly seems to lack any visual appeal for many, it significantly reduces the maintenance options for fretboard work.... If this were Dragons Den, I'd have opted out by now...
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  #33  
Old 07-25-2013, 07:35 PM
bohemian bohemian is offline
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I have a wee bit of a problem with "true temprerament"

I'd like to see a definition of this and the math for the fret placement.
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  #34  
Old 07-25-2013, 08:36 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bohemian View Post
I'd like to see a definition of this and the math for the fret placement.
Here ya go: knock yourself out.

http://www.truetemperament.com/site/...php?go=4&sgo=0
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  #35  
Old 07-26-2013, 05:00 AM
reholli reholli is offline
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Are these the seasoned Curly fries like at Arby's or Jack-in-the-Box?





Ohhhhh....frets, not fries....

Ok...sorry about that (well, maybe not that sorry).

I'm normally a defender on this forum of innovation and the unique, often against staunch opposition. In this case, I have to say that the potential benefits of this design are much outweighed by the host of potentential difficulties created for the player/owner of a guitar like this. The previous posts cover that pretty well...

I have to believe I'd have trouble playing this guitar...if I wanted to learn a new instrument, I think I'd rather pick the banjo...
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  #36  
Old 07-26-2013, 07:57 AM
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rick-slo rick-slo is offline
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The real solution, go fretless:

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  #37  
Old 07-26-2013, 09:46 AM
bohemian bohemian is offline
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I knocked myself out.

As an accordeon player, restorer, tuner, I have some familiarity with the various tuning systems.

In that lengthy dissertation they left out many of the known tuning systems.
What they did not do is explain theirs.

I have contacted a friend who has spent years studying historic tunings and is familiar with, and uses, the known "modern" tunings. I sent him a link. I'll post anything relevant.
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  #38  
Old 07-26-2013, 09:53 AM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bohemian View Post
In that lengthy dissertation they left out many of the known tuning systems.
Do you feel that it would have added something for them to include them?

There is an old joke about lute players: a lute player spends half of their life tuning the lute and the other half playing it. There were dozens of different tuning schemes historically used for tuning and tweaking the tied fret positions. If I wrote a discussion of how I fret lutes, would it be useful to include all of the previous things that have historically been tried? It would certainly increase the length of the work, not to mention bury what I'm trying to actually communicate.


Quote:
What they did not do is explain theirs.
It's been a while since I read the site, but what do you feel they left out of the explanation?

Quote:
I'll post anything relevant.
I'm always interested in anything relevant. Thanks.
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  #39  
Old 07-26-2013, 09:55 AM
dneal dneal is offline
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Quote:
...tuning problems which plague "ordinary" guitars...
That's why I try to buy "extraordinary" guitars.

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  #40  
Old 07-26-2013, 11:16 AM
DanPanther DanPanther is offline
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Is there any place I can hear the same song played on each style guitar.
I know quality of the guitar can skew the effect, but would like to hear it anyhow.

Just curious, is that a tatt on your knee, or are you wearing your jammies under your jeans ?
Dan
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  #41  
Old 07-26-2013, 11:24 AM
DanPanther DanPanther is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveyam View Post
The other thing is, when you bend a string, does its note increase in a non-linear, unexpected kind of way? kinda 'jumping' from one note to the next, like Cher's voice on 'Believe' ? That's gotta hurt.
I would say, 1/2 step bend OK, Full step bend, you have a problem, how ever slight, Segovia would nail ya, and kick you off the stage.

If you look closely at the neck, the G string is basically the one taking the most modification. I tune my G strings a few cents flat, and that seems to accomplish the same thing. The other strings are so close to right, that it's hard to notice the difference. But the G can be heard.
Dan

Last edited by DanPanther; 07-26-2013 at 11:37 AM.
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  #42  
Old 07-26-2013, 01:27 PM
bohemian bohemian is offline
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Yeah, I caught that too " ordinary guitars".. might as well slam someone else's effort in the process of trying to elevate your own.

Yes, I think that if they had done a comparison to some of the other tunings such as 1/4 comma, the various meantones etc and showed the numbers from "JUST" ( and there are more than one "just" tuning), and 12 TET modern, it would have helped.

This new True Temperament and the wiggle frets won't change the guitar's
inherent sound/tone any better then standard fretting.

BTW the Milburns are fretting their classicals to their own formula. I haven't
taken a tuner to it to get the numbers, I have a friend who has a guitar with their fret slotting system.. I'll see if I can check it out.

Another observation... I suspect that true temperament tuning is variable whithin a few cents.. the average human ear cannot distinguish less than 5 cents.
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  #43  
Old 07-26-2013, 01:54 PM
robj144 robj144 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bohemian View Post
...
This new True Temperament and the wiggle frets won't change the guitar's
inherent sound/tone any better then standard fretting.
...
Wouldn't it help for one key though and one key only? For example, the perfect fifth is a 3/2 ratio of 1.5 in the natural scale. In the modern tempered tuning (of which the guitar is based) it's 1.498. This leads to the inherent or implicit intonation problems. The reason why it's 1.498 is because the interval between each semi-tone is 2^(1/12) which gives intervals close to the natural scale while having all the intervals the same which allows the guitar to be transposed easily. If the guitar is set up to have better intonation for a key (say exactly related to the natural scale), then it will sound very nice in that one key, but it won't be able to be transposed at all.
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  #44  
Old 07-26-2013, 04:01 PM
LouieAtienza LouieAtienza is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wade Hampton View Post
That's true enough, but the flip side of the coin is that there have always been lots of idiosyncratic ideas and gadgets that will supposedly improve all sorts of things with guitars, but which don't offer enough of an advantage to ever become widely adopted. These ideas will have their fans, but most guitarists manage to do just fine without them.

When a genuinely valuable innovation DOES come along, it revolutionizes the marketplace. I can think of precisely two musical instrument-specific innovations that have come along in all the years I've been playing that have had this sort of immense influence: the Floyd Rose Tremolo and the invention of coated strings by Gore Elixir.

Those were both game-changers. Curly frets are not anywhere close to being in the same league.


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Floyd Rose was a pretty amazing guy. When he was developing the double-locking bridge, he went to machinists who quoted him upwards of $600 - just for the machining, and in the 70s! He was told that it would be impossible to cast metal parts so small with such detail, so he started studying metallurgy, and basically developed a way to cast the parts he needed! I once had four original Floyd units, and still have one left. Brad Gillis is a big fan of the early Floyds.

Now, the fretboards most seen are the Thidell Formula 1, Well-Tempered, and the Meantone, which have pretty radically shaped frets. He also makes an Even-Temperament fretboard that is not as radical as the other three.

I would be interested in trying them out; there have been a lot of discussion here about them but very few who have actually played them, so I reserve final judgment until I get on e in my hands...
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  #45  
Old 07-26-2013, 05:07 PM
bohemian bohemian is offline
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robj144

It is my understanding that tunings favor keys, or chords... or are a compromise.

This True tuning may go out of whack when you tune to an open tuning, and I'll bet it is not equally unexactingly tuned in all keys.
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bach, intonation, just temperament, mean temperam

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