Carbon Fiber (gasp!) Guitars

[jimklein]

First - I'll agree that every guitar is different - but I've owned 2 carbon guitars (a large body & an OM sized) & returned both of them after hearing them plugged in at Church.

Piercing with no warmth is what I'd call it.

I really wanted them to work.

But - some are very purdy & I still pull pull them from the racks hoping..

[emmonsh]

where they rainsong?

[whamonkey]

Originally Posted by jimklein

First - I'll agree that every guitar is different - but I've owned 2 carbon guitars (a large body & an OM sized) & returned both of them after hearing them plugged in at Church.

Piercing with no warmth is what I'd call it.

I really wanted them to work.

But - some are very purdy & I still pull pull them from the racks hoping..

Again....not my experience. I played mine at church today and several folks commented on the excellent tone. Mind you, this is near Nashville and these folks are just deaf as posts.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Flatter Picker

Hello all,

Living in a dry, coldish weather climate, I am thinking about purchasing a carbon fiber guitar that I can keep out in the living room by the fireplace, etc. I do have an office/studio with guitars that I keep at a constant temp and humidity, and I am certainly not thinking that the carbon fiber will be in most ways a replacement, but I would love it if I could have a guitar always on hand without having to worry about playing it for too long in an environment outside its 75/45 cocoon. The problem with purchasing such a carbon fiber animal is the difficulty finding an outlet for a tone and playability comparison. I found a store within a day's drive that sells Rainsong and a store in a slightly different direction with Ovation. I haven't managed to find anyone in my state (Colorado) with Composite Acoustic in stock -- their authorized dealers can order them for interested buyers. I am particularly interested in CA since I have heard that Tim Stafford plays one while on the road, and to me that says a great deal.

Well, what about it, folks? Anyone have any experience or words of wisdom?

Hi Flatter Picker,

I currently own a 2007 RainSong DR1000 Dreadnought Acoustic-Electric Guitar, and a 2007 RainSong JM3000 Jumbo 12-String Acoustic-Electric Guitar, both with the L.R. Baggs Element Pickup/Preamp System. These RainSongs are in addition to the high-end, all-wood acoustics you'll see listed at the bottom of my reply.

My feeling is that a graphite-composite guitar is a worthy addition to any guitarist's collection. They stay in tune, and are more impervious to weather/climatic changes and damage from accidental mishaps. My RainSongs sound full and deep, both acoustically and amplified, especially through my Fishman Aura Pedals!

Don't get into a wood vs. graphite funk in trying to make a decision about buying a graphite composite axe--both alternatives should be pleasing to a player's ear once they put aside the general reluctance they may have to the thought of playing something made of what pencils are made of (Quick! What's more organic: Wood or Carbon?). I find my RainSongs have a sound that's clear and even across the tonal spectrum, they sustain well, and have a crystalline upper-harmonic shimmer that wood doesn't have. To me, graphite composite guitars are a very pleasing alternative to wood that offers many advantages that wood doesn't.

Additionally, about a year ago, I ordered a CA Bluegrass Standard with onboard Fishman Aura. It arrived and I commenced to tune it to concert pitch but I noticed it kept varying in holding the tuning. Further examination of the guitar revealed that the bridge was lifting across its rear-interface with the guitar's top. Needless to say, the guitar went back to its place of purchase and I had several e-mail corespondences with CA with them offering to drop-ship a freshly-made guitar to my home. I didn't take them up on their offer and subsequently purchased my RainSong DR1000. I believe the problem with the CA wasn't representative of their quality and I fully intend to purchase a CA guitar in the future.

Regards,

SpruceTop

2006 Martin HD-28
2005 Martin D-15 Custom Spruce & Rosewood
2004 Huss & Dalton DS Rosewood
2006 Huss & Dalton D-RH
2008 Larrivee D-05E Dreadnought Acoustic-Electric
2007 RainSong DR1000 Dreadnought Acoustic-Electric
2007 RainSong JM3000 Jumbo 12-String Acoustic-Electric
2006 Fender Stratocaster

[mhs]

I thought I'd add to the lonely couple of posters that aren't in love with the CA guitars. It just seems very unbalanced (not just the guitar) in this thread, almost as if those who have not had good experiences with Carbon-Fiber guitars aren't interested in posting (which may be completely incorrect).

After all, after you've spent quite a few dollars on a little guitar and realize you don't actually like it, you might feel a bit foolish about posting such a thing. I don't so here is my 3 month (or is it 6 months?) review of this thing.

I've had a Cargo for more than 3 months, have traveled with it, played gigs on it, and practiced it a lot. Of those activities I mentioned, the thing I find it best for, as advertised, is being a travel guitar.

I'd define travel guitar as something you practice on in your hotel room and that is either nearly indestructible to withstand being smacked around in the overhead, but that good tone isn't a real requirement of. I'm just practicing so that when I get to the gig, I'm in shape.

As a travel guitar it's ok, and that's why it's not for sale yet. As a guitar I enjoy playing, its not even close. The cheapest Yamaha sounds miles ahead of this thing. I don't care at all that it's carbon-fiber in the sense that I'm not at all traditionally bound to wood. I'm just talking about how it sounds to me and it isn't a good sound, not acoustic nor amplified.

It's the only guitar I've ever bought sight unseen and the only one I ever will. Seems important that someone about to buy one gets as much feedback as possible, positive and negative.

As it came from the factory, or reseller, the only thing you could setup, basically the saddle, was about as wrong as could be. It was not seated in the bridge slot, not even making contact with the piezo, almost no sound at all until I shaved it, lowered it, and made the guitar playable. You'd think that with a production of only ten or so a day that they could manage to get 10 out of 10 playable guitars out the door, but since I was able to fix it within an hour, I shouldn't get fixated on that aspect. A lot of nice guitars show up in stores in nearly unplayable condition.

There are some sound "artifacts" that emanate from this guitar. I nearly always play this guitar finger-style and I don't know if it's something to do with the stainless steel frets or the combo of them plus the material it's made from, but there is a kind of a 'ting-tang' after-note I hear now and then. I'm becoming more and more convinced it's the frets. I'm used to adjusting my technique for the unbalanced load bass, and even for the strange sounds that come from it, and the scale was hardly a factor.

I used to find positive things to say about it, but other than being something I can practice that feels vaguely like an acoustic guitar, I can't do that anymore.

I realize these are personal things. I've had a lot of people play my Cargo and tell me how amazing it was. I'm just not one of them .. Soon I'll sell it to one of those people that love it and are waiting months to get one.

I'm off tomorrow for a few weeks of playing and 8-10 flights and I'm not taking a guitar. I've managed to borrow guitars along the way from people I know. For the travel aspect, I've been gate-checked with that Cargo too many times, and don't want to finally get caught ripping off the gate-check and shoving it in my pocket after which I toss it in the overhead.

[SongwriterFan]

I wouldn't judge all of the CA guitars by the Cargo.

The Cargo beats the pants off its "true competition" (Baby Taylor, Little Martin, etc), at least IMO.

But, if you want to compare against a full-sized Taylor or Martin, you should really be looking at something like the CrownOfThorns model (the one that looks more like a traditional dreadnought).

[emmonsh]

well i,ll put a diff view into it. not familiar with rainsong so i wont comment on them. i have a martin d15s, a cargo and a couple friends with 300 series taylors. every single one of us think the cargo has the best tone of any of them. its not electric so i dont know about the electronics, if i want to have a acoustic with electronics i would take a takamine over a martin or taylor. they are by far the best electonics on acoustics. but if some1 wants to compare a cargo to a 3000 taylor thats not even a comparison. but in the ballpark of a 1000 there isnt a taylor or martin i would change the cargo for. never goes out of tune. the sound is more of a larrivee, which is good. plenty of bass but not over powering. the mids are very good, with all sounds being clear and nothing muddled. there is a reason they are sold out with a 4 to 6 month wait.

[1ply]

I have several experiences with composite guitars.
I currently own a CA Legacy with Vintage Voicing with a 1 11/16th ebony fretboard pre-Katrina neck. I also own an Emerald Opus X30 12 string (one piece all carbon with stainless steel frets). I tried a Cargo but the neck was just too narrow for me. I compared the Emerald 12 string with Rainsong 12 strings and much preferred the sound of the Emerald.

I play the composites in prison. They are practically indestructible and sound good amplified. The CA has a Fishman Pro dual pickup and my Emerald has a B Band A7.

For home and safe and civilized settings I prefer my wooden guitars. I have a 1978 Taylor 855 and a Collings D1A which does everything I can ask a 6 string to do. I use a AKG 451 mic for amplification of these guitars.

Peace,
Rip

PS. Make sure to play many guitars before you buy one. I don’t want to suffer from GAS. I like to keep a guitar after I have purchased it for at least 10 years if finances allow.

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by 1ply

I tried a Cargo but the neck was just too narrow for me.

Interesting, because the Cargo has a 1-3/4" nut.

[astrummer]

I think this link might be relevant to the discussion.....video discussion/review of the 5i prior to when it was unveiled at the NAMM show...

http://www.acousticguitar.com/video/...rticleid=23841

This is model is on the top of my most likely to buy guitars list ( as soon as Elderly manages to get one in )

[1ply]

Perhaps I should explain my previous comment about how the Cargo was too narrow for me. I should have said that the scale was too small for me. Unlike the Emerald Life travel guitar, the Cargo does not have a standard scale neck.

Peace,
Rip

[leeasam]

Originally Posted by btdvox

You need to try them out.
I thought the plugged in sound, was utter well... you get the idea.
It sounded worse than modding an electric guitar with a roland piezo to me.

Acoustically it was ok, wasnt spectacular, it seems most people on this forum gasp at them and find the tone nice, which is odd seeing as most users here critique on tone and tonewood like crazy.

Then again I am known for over-generalizing.

But the fact that you could probably travel with it from Vancouver to India to the Arctic and it would still be stable is pretty cool, and I hear you can get away with playing them in harsh rain, though i dont know if you can do that with Electronics built in.

what guitar were you playing ? My CA GX performer withthe Baggs Imix is the best sounding live Giutar I have owned! I have had ALOT of other people comment on the plugged in tone also.

[leeasam]

Originally Posted by jimklein

First - I'll agree that every guitar is different - but I've owned 2 carbon guitars (a large body & an OM sized) & returned both of them after hearing them plugged in at Church.

Piercing with no warmth is what I'd call it.

I really wanted them to work.

But - some are very purdy & I still pull pull them from the racks hoping..

plugged in My CA GX performer blows away the 05 Taylor 814CE I had at church through a PA. Much warmer and more natural sounding.more bottom end with out having to EQ in un- natural bass.