Honest question about guitar prices

[mr. beaumont]

Depends on what we are talking about...a telecaster copy or a Marchione?

[Paleolith54]

Originally Posted by Shaneh

Now I own a number of nice acoustics and up to a point I see “value” in expensive acoustics. I am not a much of an electric payer but own a Strat elite which sounds good to me. However I was browsing a sponsor site and there some electric guitars by I guess boutique builders because I never heard of them for $16k and more. I really don’t understand with an electric what makes it worth that much. I vintage les Paul or something I can kind of understand but a new electric?

I thought the pickups are the thing that mostly impacts how they sound and little bit wood type so I don’t get why one electric would be worth $2k and one worth 16k. Besides ‘you can ask any price for something” is there really a significant difference? Like I said I am not a seasoned player so maybe there is a difference which is why I am asking

I wish I'd laid out $4K for my first Tom Anderson right off the bat instead of trying to save money by going through a half-dozen American Fenders and never finding one that that didn't have problems or limitations that only became evident as you spent time with them. I'd have saved a lot of money. I don't know about $16K, but in my book the guitars from Anderson, Suhr, and others at that level are well worth every penny. There is nothing about them that isn't demonstrably better than a good American Strat or Tele, hands down. IMO, of course.

[bsman]

Currently, two of my four electrics are what might be termed "boutique". They are a T-type and S-type built by Ron Kirn. The cost new of these guitars ($1800/2400 respectively) is perhaps a around the cost of a Fender "Ultra" and a fair amount less than almost any Fender custom shop would be. The amount of care in their construction, selection of components, and particularly setup is far superior to anything I've ever experienced from a "regular" Fender and at least equivalent to the Masterbuilt Custom Shop guitars (priced around $5K) I have picked up.

It's a no-brainer to me...

[YeOldRocker]

Originally Posted by merlin666

There's a huge difference in building an acoustic and an electric. The acoustic body takes many steps including glueing the braces and parts together, and assembling one takes at least several days. For an electric you need a bandsaw and a router and you can put a basic one together in a matter of hours.

Really? I didn't know that! Silly me. So all I have to do is get myself a bandsaw and a router and I can make a $5,000 guitar?! Who knew!

Your lack of appreciation for quality craftsmen/women who make electric guitars (which, BTW, includes hollow bodies and semi-hollow bodies, too), is really.. well, never mind... Your over-simplification of the process and condescension speaks for itself.

It takes skill to make both electrics and acoustic well. Acoustics still hold the cost-crown over electrics, so not all things are equal. Still, I know several luthiers who make acoustics; once you know how to do that and have the equipment, it's not particularly hard or complicated. Now, to make a top-tier guitar - or innovate from previous designs - is a different story all together.

Believe it or not, this holds true for electric guitar makers as well. A custom made boutique electric is not the same thing as a homemade telecaster kit.

With the advanced production technology available, it is much easier to have good-to-great acoustics or electrics at a relatively low price point. So boutique prices - for both electric and acoustic guitars - often seem way over the top. And don't get me started on mandolins....

[Dru Edwards]

I find great value in $3k acoustic and also electric guitars (and I have some of each). I also see value with $4k too. I see value above that as well but I'm not willing to spend that much.

Just like electric guitarists don't understand why anyone would spend $x on an acoustic, acoustic players also ask the same question of electric guitarists.

[BoneDigger]

I think my threshold for electric guitars is quite lower than acoustic, though right now I'm really enjoying my Epiphones, both electric and acoustic. Not a ton of money in any of them. My problem is that I'm not a very good "guitarist" and I put most of my efforts into writing and overall recording. So, I buy lower end (sub-$1500) guitars, maybe update pickups, then just enjoy it.

[elephony]

As someone who has put together a few nice partscasters and also owns an old Gibson electric, I have never thought the tone of an electric guitar has that much to do with its price tag. Ultimately the pickups are an electromagnetic generator sending signals to the amp, and the rest of the guitar has real but small effects on that. That is not to say that there is no value in a more expensive electric guitar; boutiques have great fit and finish, and as much as we would all like to pretend we are rational creatures, it definitely matters how a guitar looks, and how it feels to play. Plus boutique makers can give you exactly the neck you want, etc etc. Just because the extra thousand dollars doesn't buy tone doesn't mean it doesn't buy things worth having, it's all a matter of what you care about.

The same, of course, is to a degree also true of acoustic guitars. Wood matters, but some of the premium you pay for master grade tonewood is how it looks, not just how it sounds. And the abalone bling and fancy inlays on some guitars are gorgeous, but have zero effect on how they sound too.

Musical instruments are tools and works of great art and craft at the same time, so we all have our individual points of emphasis and, conversely, things we think are useless or even snake oil. One player's must-have is another's who-cares, that's just how it goes. If guitar considerations were all objective what would we even talk about here?

[TiffanyGuitar]

My most expensive electric is my 335 (about $2,500, which I felt like was a fair price about a year ago), but I recognized it as a very expensive purchase. And, I also just wanted a Gibson 335. Semi-hollows are very similar to acoustics - more goes into assembling the bodies.

I have played some Anderson electrics - and I have to admit that they play awesome - there is a feel to them that is very different and comfortable compared to the best set up Fender. Would I ever pay $3,500+ for an Anderson? No, my playing doesn't justify it, but I can see why professionals would.

I will probably eventually buy another strat and a tele - American Professionals. But I am not rushing out to do it - and I probably will not buy them used, but I might. Right now (and this might change) the used prices aren't that much cheaper than new and often it seems like the solid bodies being sold used are beat up. I would rather not buy something used that has been beat up too badly.

I doubt I will ever buy another guitar that costs $2,500. American Professionals are around $1,600, so I guess that is about my limit.

As to pricing, like everything else, pricing is relative to everyone. I was just talking to a guy who mentioned the collector who paid $5M for Dave Gilmour's strat. To that collector, $5M was nothing. To most people (including me), paying $5M for a solid chunk of carved alder with another chunk of carved maple bolted to it with steel strings on it would be absolutely crazy.

[Steve DeRosa]

Within the last five years I've bought two new Gretsch electrics - a 2015 Korean-made Electromatic G5622T-CB and a NOS 2013 MIJ Professional Series G6136DC White Falcon:





With a Gator Journeyman case (a near-clone of the 1950's Gretsch factory "Western" case) the E-Matic came in just under $1K brand-new; this one's my all-around, grab-&-go gigmeister - gets me 95+% of the tones I'm ever likely to need (and a few you'll never get from any other guitar, regardless of manufacturer)...

The Falcon cost me about three times as much (with factory HSC); this one was the realization of a 55-year dream for me, ever since I saw the color photo inside the back cover of the '63 Gretsch catalog (still somewhere in my collection BTW) - I reserve it strictly for special occasions, and treat it like the guitar royalty (to borrow from a recent Ibanez ad campaign) it is...

The E-matic is virtually maintenance-free, tough as nails, and never fails to garner compliments from fellow players for tone, looks, or (most often) both...

One well-known Gretsch authority has branded the White Falcon the "Faberge egg" of the guitar world - and, like my former '73 D-45, it falls under the heading of "playable art"...

Using the double-cutaway 1963 Chet Atkins 6120 as the (arguably) closest-available vintage model to the 5622, the November 1963 $495 list price translates to nearly $4200 today...

Based on a November 1963 list price of $800 for the standard model (the uber-rare double-cut Project-o-Sonic Stereo version - Neil Young used one of the very few extant examples in the early days of CSNY - listed for $1000), the Falcon should sell for approximately $7100 in 2021 dollars...

The $1K E-Matic equals (and exceeds, in many respects) all but the best vintage Brooklyn instruments in terms of QC and playability - Gretsch was my hometown brand, and I played them when they were brand-new at the local music stores - and rivals them for tone...

The Pro Series Falcon is more historically accurate in terms of hardware and appointments, with an attention to detail that borders on the uncanny - if you've ever had a jones for a golden-era Gretsch but don't want to be bothered with the attendant headaches (iffy electronics, binding rot, questionable neck joints) this is the way to go - and if you're an "outside-the-box" player with $3-4K to spend on a good hollow/semi, IME you'll get more guitar for your money with one of the Pro Series, than similar offerings from some big-name makers relying on a no-longer-valid reputation to justify their pricing...

Vis-a-vis comparable guitars, I figure I scored a bargain either way...

[Shaneh]

I appreciate all the comments. Aside from some fit and finish differences I can acknowledge may be better, do they really sound better? Again honest question. I feel like the amp and effects play such a large role in the sound I have not experienced a real noticeable sound difference for the extra money. I like that my Elite strat has noiseless pickups from a hum perspective but not sure one plugged in they sound that different from a mexico strat which now come with noiseless too.

I get special looking wood but most are painted anyway. if I bought an Epiphone LP and put the same pickups in a Gibson LP Standard, will is sound pretty much the same through the same amp and effects?

[guitararmy]

I can see your point. I have expensive electric guitars, but I don't think the price reflects the work put into making them as much their collectibility based on the brand...

[Paleolith54]

Originally Posted by Shaneh

I appreciate all the comments. Aside from some fit and finish differences I can acknowledge may be better, do they really sound better? Again honest question. I feel like the amp and effects play such a large role in the sound I have not experienced a real noticeable sound difference for the extra money. I like that my Elite strat has noiseless pickups from a hum perspective but not sure one plugged in they sound that different from a mexico strat which now come with noiseless too.

I get special looking wood but most are painted anyway. if I bought an Epiphone LP and put the same pickups in a Gibson LP Standard, will is sound pretty much the same through the same amp and effects?

It isn't just about how it sounds. In fact, to me, that's not even the primary criterion. How the boutique stuff sounds is, to my ears, a bit better but not radically so. But the differences in craftsmanship and materials, which you seem to be dismissing as mere " fit and finish" make a profound difference in how it plays, which is what makes it worth the money in my book

[Steve DeRosa]

To an extent that's true (perhaps a bit more so with acoustics than electrics) but I think we're all familiar with predominantly low-/mid-price brands who produce fully professional-quality guitars (Eastman and Gretsch come quickly to mind), whose attention to detail regularly exceeds "pro" instruments of the 1950-1970 "Golden Era" when new, and gives the uber-axes some real competition - and IME a competent luthier can make up just about any difference in playability with a good setup job...

[FrankHudson]

I sometimes wonder like the OP at super high prices for typical electric guitar designs. When I do I answer myself with the theory of diminishing returns.

To me a few hundred dollars difference is significant, a few thousand starts to get into questions of priorities (which I take seriously), and at the upper end of guitar and musical equipment stuff it's plain unaffordable to me.

Others have different amounts of money, and different priorities may enter into things too. They're going to think differently about their purchases. I think some have tried to answer the OP from that territory. If I were them I'd expect first class and most durable electrical components, perfect woodworking and wood selection, flawless assembly, fretwork and setup, and perhaps a dollop of bling. I've already said I don't shop in that range, but this may be what the others replying have experienced.

I'd also say without direct experience, that at least some expectations of "you (always) get what you pay for" will be dashed or obscured by pride of ownership -- because that's the way of the world in my observation: a foolish expectation that something is more valuable because it costs more is common, we aren't just talking guitars with that principle. Please note happy owners of high-end electrics: I'm not saying that's your situation, which I don't know is the exception or the rule, I'm just saying there have to be some makers who demand a price that isn't met with the returns you feel you have.

Now, here's were I return to my own direct experience. I'm sure that high end instruments are not necessary to produce superb effects on the listener or to allow one to become "pro" in the sense of a person whose full-time job is musician. I've heard too many effective performances made with work-a-day instruments, and of course many of our most treasured vintage guitars were just "used guitars" when bought and used by musicians.

Playing feel is a different thing, and I think some respondents point this out to the OP. A perfect neck carve, otherwise unavailable, might seal the deal for some for example. I have neck preferences, but I'm personally able to live with off-the-rack necks on many electrics. And a good, skilled, full setup can narrow the advantages to a guitar setup by it's small batch maker.

[merlin666]

Originally Posted by YeOldRocker

Really? I didn't know that! Silly me. So all I have to do is get myself a bandsaw and a router and I can make a $5,000 guitar?! Who knew!

Your lack of appreciation for quality craftsmen/women who make electric guitars (which, BTW, includes hollow bodies and semi-hollow bodies, too), is really.. well, never mind... Your over-simplification of the process and condescension speaks for itself.

It takes skill to make both electrics and acoustic well. Acoustics still hold the cost-crown over electrics, so not all things are equal. Still, I know several luthiers who make acoustics; once you know how to do that and have the equipment, it's not particularly hard or complicated. Now, to make a top-tier guitar - or innovate from previous designs - is a different story all together.

Believe it or not, this holds true for electric guitar makers as well. A custom made boutique electric is not the same thing as a homemade telecaster kit.

With the advanced production technology available, it is much easier to have good-to-great acoustics or electrics at a relatively low price point. So boutique prices - for both electric and acoustic guitars - often seem way over the top. And don't get me started on mandolins....

I didn't imply that at all but tried to point out the fundamental difference between building an acoustic and an electric guitar. These differences are key to the price differences. And there are boutique builders who specialize on simple construction like Telecaster and they still will have pricey units. Example is Rick Kelly who clearly states that he puts together most guitars within hours. But if you have to go on waiting list of months or years then sure you can pay the premium for that privilege.