#1
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"10's" or "12's" For Acoustic Duo ?
I'm an old Luddite. Okay, maybe not that bad, I do have an iPhone and an iPad and Bluetooth in the truck.
Me and a friend have done an acoustic cd, working on digital distribution right now. Our p.a. stuff is pretty much left over from the 90's. I have a killer pair of Peavey SP 2's. Which is a 15 and a horn and weighs 3000 lbs. If we don't go Bose to get out and peddle some of these cd's I'm noticing a lot of you are using 10's for mains in smaller clubs as opposed to 12's. I also notice people are now using powered speakers a lot and wonder why, and about reliability. I played a lot of bass back in the day, and have a Carvin RB1000 with 10's and they are great. My brain tells me 12's would have bigger sound and better bass than 10's, but those bass rigs always use 10's and my brain is getting up in years. I read good things about the Bose rigs and we will probably look into those as well, but being old school will likely go full p.a. with monitors but on a far smaller scale than the old Rock days ! Thanks for your opinions. |
#2
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I played top 40 rock and roll back when Pat Benetar
was singing "hit me with you best shot". I don't miss lugging speakers the size of volkswagons. My current acoustic band started out with qsc k12s. We now use k10s. A bit of bass roll off compromise . But not enough to overcome the bulk and weight difference. Bulk more than weight. k10s physical size just makes them easier to schlep. But we use a small ev sub that covers the electric bass and some low guitar drop d freqs. Last edited by varmonter; 08-25-2018 at 06:14 AM. |
#3
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There are three ways to get low frequencies out of speakers: large speaker size, multiple speakers acting as one larger speaker, and bass porting. How do they compare? It depends on how much volume you want. Large woofers and and cabinets with walls of speakers can go really loud, but at the listening volumes I play, a well ported small speaker or two produces plenty of bass.
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#4
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Technology is changing so fast, my current PA is about 6 or 7 years old, my mains are powered and 12". My floor monitor is a scaled down 10" of my mains. I'm beginning to think that they are already obsolete. I use to think that 12" was best suited for acoustic guitar but recently I seen an acoustic gig at a restaurant, they were using tiny little speakers on pole stands and they had a very good sound, the acoustic guitar dynamics were accentuated with plenty of volume. I didn't catch the brand but I could imagine them being Bose or something in that technology niche.
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The Blond The Brunette The Red Head The Old Lady Goldilocks Flipper "Sometimes I play a song I never heard before" Thelonious Monk |
#5
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We use 2 fishman loudbox performers. Works great. No PA.
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#6
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Bose is best. 180 degree sound dispersement. Every one in the back and side can hear you and people in front don't need earplugs. I use an L1 compact. I add powered speakers as needed.
I also played in the 70's. |
#7
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It's a little confusing these days, there are so many options and choices. Then everyone will tell you that their choice is "best." How do we decide? I finally chose to have two different systems to use at the different venues I play at. I will play with a bass player today and he will bring his amp. For outdoor gigs I like my QSC K 10.2 speakers. They are as loud as I ever need to get, clear, very reliable and only weigh 32 lbs. My Yamaha MG10XU mixer is a feather weight. The QSCs are great for vocals and acoustic guitar but not for bass frequencies. It would be easy to get a subwoofer for bass. For indoor gigs I have a Fishman SA330. Again great for guitar and vocals but not for bass unless you opt for the subwoofer. Great sound, very portable, and includes a great mixer in the unit. A lot of guys like Bose, Maui, and Turbosound to name a few. So many choices!
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#8
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hunter |
#9
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Hi MS
My rig has to accommodate bass (electric and acoustic), acoustic guitar, vocals, and the occasional keyboard…so my 12" two way rig is about the perfect size cabinet. A 12" woofer will handle bass for small/medium small situations (if you feed it enough power) without getting muddy on the bottom. My system has community cabinets (brand) and bring an extra measure of fullness to the bottom end of acoustic guitars with clarity and not mud. My cabinets are passive, and I'm pushing them with 1200 watts of power (at 4 ohms). I like powered speakers, but they usually weigh quite a bit more than the non-powered ones, and I'm nearly 70 years old. I don't lift more than 35 pounds…ever. Our church had high end QAC 10" two way cabinets, mounted 10 feet above the floor, and aimed to meet in the middle of the congregation about ⅔ of the way back in the room…and they drilled holes through people where the signals crossed. They could not push enough air to do bass without substantial sub-woofing, and totally non-portable. They would not have been a good choice for our acoustic groups. They finally went a line array rig (which is portable if you have 4 roadies to help you break-down and haul-out). Back in the day Voice-of-the-Theater (15" two way) was the all American dream. And in a room of hundreds of people, they did a respectable job - but the bass player had his own cabinets, and so did the electric guitarist, and the organist had 2 Leslie cabinets. The only things in the PA were the vocals and the trumpet/trombone/sax. With today's music, 15" two/three way cabinets tend to be overly midrange prone and muddy on the bottom end (and weigh WAY too much…more than I want to set atop a pole and boost in the air). If you want flexibility, I sure like the balance of 12" two way for ability to project and easily cover 300 people and still sound pleasant. Just my opinions…
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Baby #1.1 Baby #1.2 Baby #02 Baby #03 Baby #04 Baby #05 Larry's songs... …Just because you've argued someone into silence doesn't mean you have convinced them… Last edited by ljguitar; 08-25-2018 at 11:21 AM. Reason: added a thought |
#10
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You may not need more than 8" speakers, like the EV ZxA1 or QSC K8. Very lightweight, small form factor, and can serve as either floor monitors or FOH. They cover the full frequency spectrum for guitars and vocals, but if you want to put a keyboard or bass through FOH you will need more bass extension. A separate sub with these kinds of smaller FOH speakers might be more flexible than 10" or larger speakers if you typically don't need the extra bass extension.
8" speakers won't generally project as far as bigger boxes, but if you perform in environments where their capabilities are appropriate, you may find you prefer the ease of working with them over larger and heavier alternatives. Last edited by GmanJeff; 08-26-2018 at 05:51 AM. |
#11
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"Mistaking silence for weakness and contempt for fear is the final, fatal error of a fool" - Sicilian proverb (paraphrased) |
#12
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When our open mic was coming to the conclusion the venue's tired old 25 year old Peavey mains were a decade past their prime, we experimented by turning the 8" powered monitors toward the audience.They filled the 50 seat room fine, and for the solo or duo acoustic performers that are the norm, they would work well.
But we figured the venue would want more punch for Karaoke night, plus we wanted bands to play through the mains. I talked to four bands, all of which brought their own PA because of the reputation of those old Peaveys. In the end we bought 15" passive QSCs to hang from the ceiling. They work great for everything. Young bands can come in with pedal boards and sound good, bass included. But I'd not want to schlep 15" cabs around. I also think vocals sound better with the smaller powered speakers than the average acoustic amp.
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#13
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I thinks 12's is sort of the default size... but only if you are multiple use, ie solo/duo stuff and band stuff. For solo/ duo work I much prefer 10's or 8's. Sure you lose a bit in the bottom end but that does not matter too much usually. Clarity and spread is more the thing. Not a fan of 15's in general.
I use K's the original 10's and 8's. For me the default is the 10's, especially for noisier pub type settings. enough punch and a decent dispersion pattern to handle. Set above head height and angled down. But I did a gig recently in a big old clay brick warehouse setting. Lots of open space and alcoves. Set up on the corner edge of the main seating chatting area. For there a pair of the 8's on a fork was ideal. As ever it depends. If you do ever need to have more bottom end punch a small sub is usually not too heavy to lug these days. Grab a Rock n Roller and go... Kris
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Keep it Simple |
#14
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#15
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I like 10’s better than 12’s for Acoustic Guitar and Voice. If there are lower frequencies, I’d rather add a sub and crossover.
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