That late 60's and early 70's guitar sound

[AcousticDreams]

I think getting a full sounding Acoustic guitar with voice and having it be enough with just the two, is always challenging recording proposition.

I'm of the belief that it must first sound great with just acoustic and voice. In my productions I want symphony, drums and bass, but first it must survive on its own with just guitar and voice.

And it certainly can, but getting acoustic guitar recorded to where it shines with fullness, and separates from the voice and other instruments...is the illusive goal.

While there is no question that there was lots of EQ going on back in the days, the acoustic guitar did stand out in so many recordings of the late 60's and early 70's.

Of course this new take-remastered I am sure, has all the benefits of modern equipment EQs, reverbs and compression most likely. Still it does stand out with fullness. Not necessarily accuracy. But it certainly does cut through.

The other interesting points made in the article, is having several writers and what that does to the creativity. Ego's are what break apart a band. Yet Ego's and differences are often what makes the band what it is in the first place.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4zSLoMCvfg&t=1s
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...130125666.html

[keith.rogers]

Honestly, to me, it's those two distinct, iconic voices that stand out here. The guitar is just a supporting piece. Admittedly, my ears are not what they once were, but I don't really hear anything special in the guitar recording, besides a solid player.

What I think a lot of the 60s and 70s recordings had going for them was the fact that these folks had probably spent many of their 10000 hours (whatever) playing acoustic guitar and singing along to it, with folks hearing them, and listening to other acoustic performances. They really understood how to control the dynamics and balance the levels of the parts, i.e., to where they needed to be, without the [misguided] "fix it in the mix" thinking that many people believe is SOP today.

And, repeating myself, these two had real voices.

[Brent Hahn]

What I hear: A Martin D miked with a big condenser, not terribly close. Quite a bit of hpf, noticeable compression. Tracked to tape. And a lovely song with those two guys singing it.

To me the guitar sound is pretty average, while the song and the vocals are very special.

[KevWind]

Great song and recording
Interesting it was recorded during the Deja Vu album sessions, but didn't make it into that album. I did recognized the song from Young's solo album released later "After the Gold Rush" but that version is more of piano piece

[catdaddy]

I love the sound of Young's Martin. That's the sound I want to hear on a beautiful, minimalistic strumming arrangement of a great song by Neil. To my ear it's perfection.

In the same way, I want to hear Keef's Gibson on the Stones' rock classic below. The late 60s and early 70s were a time when I imprinted on the sound of acoustic guitar, and CSN(Y) and The Stones were a couple of my biggest influences. No surprise then that I find the recordings (then and now) of the sounds of a Martin D-45 and Gibson Hummingbird to be the holy grail of acoustic guitar tone.

[Bob Womack]

Neil Young's song was recorded at Wally Heider's studio C in SF. We hear a Large diaphragm condenser mic place far away enough to kill some of the boom. Heider had a custom console with no parametric EQ (studio use of that was a half decade in the future) and virtually no high end EQ used because there was probably only one band (10k) available, if at all; there's gobs and gobs of compression on the guitar and we can bet they used Wally's mentor, Bill Putnam's new Universal Audio 1176 compressor/limiter because Wally Heider worked with Bill to design the studio and the 1176 had come out the year before, and then we know they used an Ampex MM1000 sixteen-track, two-inch tape recorder, the first sixteen track model available. Sixteen on two-inch had a more open sound than the next generation, twenty-four on two-inch. The Jefferson Airplane opened the studio by recording their Volunteers album on that machine. By the way, a guitarist in the Valley bought that tape deck a while ago for his home studio and it still has the Wally Heider asset tag on it.

Fun historical trivia. Right down my alley.


Bob

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

Neil Young's song was recorded at Wally Heider's studio C in SF. We hear a Large diaphragm condenser mic place far away enough to kill some of the boom. Heider had a custom console with no parametric EQ (studio use of that was a half decade in the future) and virtually no high end EQ used because there was probably only one band (10k) available, if at all; there's gobs and gobs of compression on the guitar and we can bet they used Wally's mentor, Bill Putnam's new Universal Audio 1176 compressor/limiter because Wally Heider worked with Bill to design the studio and the 1176 had come out the year before, and then we know they used an Ampex MM1000 sixteen-track, two-inch tape recorder, the first sixteen track model available. Sixteen on two-inch had a more open sound than the next generation, twenty-four on two-inch. The Jefferson Airplane opened the studio by recording their Volunteers album on that machine. By the way, a guitarist in the Valley bought that tape deck a while ago for his home studio and it still has the Wally Heider asset tag on it.

Fun historical trivia. Right down my alley.


Bob

Always appreciate you vast knowledge of recording and history there of.

Interesting to learn that the 16 track was more open sounding. Makes sense, because each track would be covering more space on the tape.

Several people have claimed that Two 1176's were used in series. Into one and then into another. Some people claim that Pete Townsend also used 1176 into a LA2A....
Here are some excerpts from an article on CSNY recording from Sound on Sound. Engineer speaking:

"I went and got a really nice acoustic guitar mic, a tube Neumann U67, and I set it up, got Stephen some headphones so he could hear what he was doing,"

I was pretty much a purist. So, when the old Martin D28 that Stephen played sounded really dull to me, I started adding top end and using those equalisers that we'd got for Bones Howe, while also putting a limiter on it and taking all the bottom‑end off. I just kept trying to brighten it up and get it a little more present, and once I had it sounding pretty good I thought I'd record a little, let him take a listen, and then see if he liked it and how we could change it. I was really trying to please.

"So, with David and Graham sitting next to me, I started to roll tape on the 16‑track and David signalled this to Stephen by making a circular motion with his hand above his head. Until then, Stephen had just been goofing around on his guitar, but suddenly he zeroed in on the microphone and started flailing away, and the sound was so bright that the compressor was way over‑compressed — instead of bouncing around like compressors do, it just laid down and sat there. There was also no bottom end. However, from my training with Heider I knew that I couldn't stop the take; I had to just let it go and then explain the problem and try to fix it later.

"Sitting there, I was already thinking about the things I could do to fix it, because I had totally overdone the sound, but Stephen was totally into what he was playing, and just when it looked like he was going to stop, he started another section and played some more. By now, my whole life was flashing in front of me, and certain that my career was over, I began to sweat. Meanwhile, Crosby and Nash were standing next to me, dancing — they were having a good time — and it wasn't until seven and a half minutes into the recording that the whole thing ended. Stephen had just played the basic track to 'Suite: Judy Blue Eyes'...

"It still gives me goose bumps when I listen to that recording, aware that he blew through seven‑and‑a‑half minutes with all the time changes, all the pauses, all the everything in just one take,” Halverson says. "No edits, no nothing. Anyway, when Stephen was done and I could hear him taking off his headphones, I figured he was going to come in and just blast me for the horrible recording, so I was ready with my excuses. David and Graham met him at the double doors, and while they were all high‑fiving each other Stephen turned to me and said something to the effect of, 'Oh, that's the sound I've been looking for! I love it!' and I went, 'Thanks.' I was just dumbfounded. For the next 20 years, I didn't tell him it was an incredibly happy accident, and that if I had known what I was doing he wouldn't have got what he wanted.”

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

Neil Young's song was recorded at Wally Heider's studio C in SF. We hear a Large diaphragm condenser mic place far away enough to kill some of the boom. Heider had a custom console with no parametric EQ (studio use of that was a half decade in the future) and virtually no high end EQ used because there was probably only one band (10k) available, if at all; there's gobs and gobs of compression on the guitar and we can bet they used Wally's mentor, Bill Putnam's new Universal Audio 1176 compressor/limiter because Wally Heider worked with Bill to design the studio and the 1176 had come out the year before, and then we know they used an Ampex MM1000 sixteen-track, two-inch tape recorder, the first sixteen track model available. Sixteen on two-inch had a more open sound than the next generation, twenty-four on two-inch. The Jefferson Airplane opened the studio by recording their Volunteers album on that machine. By the way, a guitarist in the Valley bought that tape deck a while ago for his home studio and it still has the Wally Heider asset tag on it.

Fun historical trivia. Right down my alley.


Bob

Interesting info Bob

[min7b5]

Bob,
I just last week finished reading the book “If These Halls Could Talk: A Historical Tour through San Francisco Recording Studios,” so your post took me right back to that

[Bob Womack]

Originally Posted by min7b5

Bob,
I just last week finished reading the book “If These Halls Could Talk: A Historical Tour through San Francisco Recording Studios,” so your post took me right back to that

Thanks! I didn't know that book existed! I started reading album notes in the '60s. Last year I read The Great British Recording Studios by Howard Massey and loved it. I had heard of most of those great old studios and it was great to see diagrams and pictures and read histories.

Bob

[AcousticDreams]

Originally Posted by min7b5

Bob,
I just last week finished reading the book “If These Halls Could Talk: A Historical Tour through San Francisco Recording Studios,” so your post took me right back to that

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

Thanks! I didn't know that book existed! I started reading album notes in the '60s. Last year I read The Great British Recording Studios by Howard Massey and loved it. I had heard of most of those great old studios and it was great to see diagrams and pictures and read histories.

Bob

Do these books give detailed information such as compressors, EQ, mics used, and set up's(mic placement and distance)?

[min7b5]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

Do these books give detailed information such as compressors, EQ, mics used, and set up's(mic placement and distance)?

Not really. At lease with the San Francisco one anyway, there's some overview of what studios had what, who got the first 24 track board in town, etc, but more the amazing stories of those spaces, who owned them, who was producing who, and what went down in them musically. I really enjoyed it quite a bit, and have the British one Bob mentioned coming in the mail right now..

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

Do these books give detailed information such as compressors, EQ, mics used, and set up's(mic placement and distance)?

I haven't read any of the mentioned books Sometimes such info does get written into articles about specific engineers working on some of those iconic records that sometimes you can stumble on in google search but it's pretty hit and miss

I googled Wally Heider studio and stumbled on this photo (no info on artist, engineer, or time frame) but looks like EV RE 20's on both the vocal and guitar

[keith.rogers]

Originally Posted by KevWind

...
I googled Wally Heider studio and stumbled on this photo (no info on artist, engineer, or time frame) but looks like EV RE 20's on both the vocal and guitar
...

James McMurtry has been using a single RE20 in his live stream shows on FB for months. Actually set what looks to be 90 degrees off axis and some distance away. Sounds great in that application.

[Bob Womack]

Originally Posted by Knives&Guitars

Do these books give detailed information such as compressors, EQ, mics used, and set up's(mic placement and distance)?

In The Great British Recording Studios they do discuss each studio's gear including mics, console, monitors, and mics, when the info is available.

Bob